November 18, 2019, 01:24:32 PM

Author Topic: Brigaded units facing to the rear.  (Read 3437 times)

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Offline Lex

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Re: Brigaded units facing to the rear.
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2017, 03:22:07 PM »
I played this game for over 15 years now, and this has never come up as an issue. It was always seen as a valid solution to fend of flyers etc.

in the discussed ruleschages I would argue that a unit NOT facing in the same direction can not support a charge, NOR an it make way in ANY circumstances. That should offset the perceived positives as 2 strong negatives.

Offline Dave

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Re: Brigaded units facing to the rear.
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2017, 03:37:12 PM »
That's already in there Lex:

Quote
The supporting stand must also be facing in the same direction as the supported stand

There is nothing to say what way the unit must face when it finishes moving.

If the front edge is a part of a stand and reference in the rules, and no part of a stand may move more than it is allowed, I don't see how stands are allowed to change their facing for free.

Offline Toothpick

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Re: Brigaded units facing to the rear.
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2017, 03:39:31 PM »
in the discussed ruleschages I would argue that a unit NOT facing in the same direction can not support a charge, NOR an it make way in ANY circumstances. That should offset the perceived positives as 2 strong negatives.

I like the "NOR can it make way in ANY circumstances" bit.


Offline Toothpick

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Re: Brigaded units facing to the rear.
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2017, 03:48:17 PM »
There is nothing to say what way the unit must face when it finishes moving.

If the front edge is a part of a stand and reference in the rules, and no part of a stand may move more than it is allowed, I don't see how stands are allowed to change their facing for free.
[/quote]

Sorry Dave, maybe i'm not understanding your post correctly. But i thought that as long as a stand/unit does NOT move more than it is allowed to, then it can end its movement facing in any direction. The unit can even change formation too.

Have i missed your point?

Offline Dave

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Re: Brigaded units facing to the rear.
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2017, 04:08:57 PM »
Maybe? I'll summarize:

This is in the rules:

Quote
No part of a stand can move further than its permitted
maximum  movement  distance.  Always  measure  from
the part of the stand that moves the greatest distance

If you're measuring from the part of the stand that moves the greatest distance you do not get to change your facing for free. You have to "pay" for that rotation out of the distance you can move.

Yes you can rearrange your units, and the direction the stands face within them. But it takes up part of your move to do that.

Offline Aquahog

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Re: Brigaded units facing to the rear.
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2017, 04:30:14 PM »
I think you're overly worried Toothpick. Getting a flank charge is just as powerful as a rear charge and easier to pull off as well.

There have so far not been any rules on facing and direction regarding making way. Isn't the confusion risk enough?

I'd disallow a supporting charge to the rear, but perhaps this is a loophole we've missed. Will have to check the rules.

Offline Aldhick

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Re: Brigaded units facing to the rear.
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2017, 05:14:27 PM »
you cannot make supporting charge unless you are in supporting position before charge move. So there's no way how you can make supporting charge when there's not at least one stand facing the same direction as the charging unit.

I also don't see different facing of units in brigades as an issue. It has never been one.

Thought it's an interesting idea I don't se how preventing making way based on position in a brigade could be realized unles redoing the whole make way rules completely. 
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 05:24:28 PM by Aldhick »
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Offline Toothpick

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Re: Brigaded units facing to the rear.
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2017, 05:46:44 PM »
I think you're overly worried Toothpick.

Probably....

Offline Lex

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Re: Brigaded units facing to the rear.
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2017, 10:34:26 AM »
Thought it's an interesting idea I don't se how preventing making way based on position in a brigade could be realized unles redoing the whole make way rules completely.

N áh   it is easy. In order to make way a unit must be aware of the fact it must make way, so its front is in contact with the back OR its side is in contact with a side.

If it is not, treat the situation as "making way blocked by terrain"

Offline Toothpick

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Re: Brigaded units facing to the rear.
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2017, 11:10:31 AM »
N áh   it is easy. In order to make way a unit must be aware of the fact it must make way, so its front is in contact with the back OR its side is in contact with a side.

If it is not, treat the situation as "making way blocked by terrain"

1.If unit A retreats from combat into unit B, and unit B cannot see unit A – stands within unit A are destroyed?

2.If unit A is driven back by shooting into unit B, and unit B cannot see unit A – unit A stops when it makes contact with unit B, and is confused on a d6 roll of 6?

3.If unit A does an initiative evade, can it still burst through unit B if unit B cannot see it?

« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 11:35:15 AM by Toothpick »

Offline honestmistake

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Re: Brigaded units facing to the rear.
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2017, 02:28:51 PM »
But that assumes that no-one in the unit looks over a shoulder, that everyone in it automatically refuses to budge when their own troops are forced into their position.. basically that the unit refuses to acknowledge that troops on their own side even exist if they are not directly in their line of sight? There is already a confusion test for troops who make way and I could (perhaps) understand an argument that troops facing the wrong direction make this test at a modest penalty but not allowing them to move at all is a pretty major change.


Offline Toothpick

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Re: Brigaded units facing to the rear.
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2017, 02:48:16 PM »
@Honestmistake, I agree with you.
I was just thinking out loud, "running the numbers" as it were, for different scenarios for units moving into other units that cannot see them, based on Lex's suggestion.