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Author Topic: giving way / moving back  (Read 2224 times)

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Offline greenskinchief

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giving way / moving back
« on: March 07, 2017, 01:18:00 PM »
we had a situation in a game last night, where a unit retreating from combat contacted another friendly unit on a corner forcing it to give way, can the unit giving way move back into a supporting position? the rules seem to contradict themselves saying it can move to a supporting position but then also saying into cannot move into contact with a unit in combat, we decided on the spot that moving back into support is only available in the shooting phase buy having reread the rules I'm not so sure?
any input gratefully received.

Offline Dave

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Re: giving way / moving back
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2017, 02:09:18 PM »
When you make way you either move directly back (along a line perpendicular to the front edge of the stand that's in the way) or to the side (along a line parallel to the front edge of the stand in the way).

The only time you can give way into a supporting position if you started in that supporting position.

Offline Aldhick

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Re: giving way / moving back
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2017, 03:21:03 PM »
IIRC in WM errata it says that if all stands of the unit that is making way to the back are in the way of the retreating unit, they can get into supporting possition I think.. will check..

Againt the the make way to the side - isn't the wording that you move "the sortest way aside"? That can be interpreted as any direction, but the shortest way, right?
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Offline Toothpick

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Re: giving way / moving back
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2017, 06:37:00 PM »
IIRC in WM errata it says that if all stands of the unit that is making way to the back are in the way of the retreating unit, they can get into supporting possition I think.. will check..

Yes, as shown in diagram 57.2

Againt the
the make way to the side - isn't the wording that you move "the sortest way aside"? That can be interpreted as any direction, but the shortest way, right?

Yes as in diagram 57.1

Offline greenskinchief

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Re: giving way / moving back
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2017, 11:28:00 AM »
a further question in the same area rules say a unit making way can either move aside or move back,
does this decision have to be by the shortest route so if a unit  needed to move back 4cm or move aside 2cm would it have to move  aside?

Offline Dave

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Re: giving way / moving back
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2017, 12:38:27 PM »
IIRC in WM errata it says that if all stands of the unit that is making way to the back are in the way of the retreating unit, they can get into supporting possition I think.. will check..

Yes, as shown in diagram 57.2

Just a minor point, for greenskinchief's benefit. 57.2 is from the WM errata, and the unit making way into a support position was completely in the path of the unit falling back. I don't think this would have been possible in your situation having just clipped a corner.

a further question in the same area rules say a unit making way can either move aside or move back,
does this decision have to be by the shortest route so if a unit  needed to move back 4cm or move aside 2cm would it have to move  aside?

You can choose back or side, if you choose side it's the stand who has the shortest path to get out of the way that chooses the direction (left or right). Once they're out of the way, you arrange the other stands in formation around it (and out of the way of the unit falling back).

Quote
When moving aside, all stands in the path of the
friendly unit are moved and all other stands remain
stationary. The player rearranges the stands that move
around the stands that remain stationary. If the entire
unit lies within the path of the friendly unit then all
stands must be moved, in this case the player begins
with the stand that must move the shortest distance to
get out of the path of its friends. This stand is moved
the shortest distance out of the path of its friends
without changing its orientation. The remaining
stands are then rearranged into formation around the
first. Note that unitís that are moving aside can change
their formation as they do so. See diagram 57.1

« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 12:42:38 PM by Dave »

Offline Aldhick

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Re: giving way / moving back
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2017, 12:40:25 PM »
According to the wording it's up to you to choose if there is possibility to do so.
 
However the making way rules are probably the most disputable ones in WM rules.
It's perfectly clear what to do, when you are driven back/retreating from enemy to your front. But situations get confusing when the impuls comes from other sides. For example when there are two cavalry units next to each other and one is shot at from the side and is driven back. Can the other unit positioned next to the driven back keep pace with it as described in "moving back"? Or does it have to follow "moving aside" rules?
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Offline Dave

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Re: giving way / moving back
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2017, 12:49:43 PM »
We treat "aside" as perpendicular to the direction of the driveback, and "back" as parallel to the direction of the driveback.

Offline Aldhick

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Re: giving way / moving back
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2017, 01:20:47 PM »
We treat "aside" as perpendicular to the direction of the driveback, and "back" as parallel to the direction of the driveback.
This is reasonable solution, however the wording doesn't say it explicitly and it can be disputed by those who don't like it in some special situations on a tournament for example. 
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Offline Dave

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Re: giving way / moving back
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2017, 01:25:56 PM »
Yep, WM's rules are tremendously wordy but there's plenty of areas like this.