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Author Topic: Supporting Stands query  (Read 1583 times)

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Offline Clawlessdragon

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Supporting Stands query
« on: February 12, 2017, 01:14:15 AM »
Hello my first of many queries under WMR. Supporting stands I have 2 queries, hopefully the attached diagrams will help.
Scenario A: Green charges orange, normally both green units would charge in as the second unit can "support charge". If say terrain only allowed 1 stand to actually get into combat, the rest of the unit would be placed behind and to the side and offer support (see A2). Can the second unit move with the first as they started in a "position of support" or do they remain where they are as they would not actually provide any support in that combat round?.
Scenario B: Orange charges green archers, who get to stand and shoot. Orange destroy the first green unit even though they had support from the unit behind. Orange now advance into the second unit. Under WM the second unit would get to stand and shoot. However under WMR the second unit is considered "part" of the combat (a supporting unit can no longer be targeted by shooting), therefore can they stand and shoot when Orange advances into them?

Offline Aldhick

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Re: Supporting Stands query
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2017, 07:07:42 AM »
A: The charging unit must form a battleline, so the posistioning of the unit on the picture is wrong. You can only place stands behind when the stands don't have sufficient move to make a line. When the first charging unit is in line formation, the originally supporting unit can easily make supporting charge.

B: The supporting unit was part of a combat so the charging unit don't really advance but pursues. So no Stand and shoot takes place.

 :-)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 07:13:22 AM by Aldhick »
WM - Toomb Kings
My Mordheim guys (and gals)
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t2734-aldhick-s-gangs

Offline Clawlessdragon

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Re: Supporting Stands query
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2017, 09:23:53 AM »
Thanks for the clarification, that makes sense and changes some of the dynamics.

Expanding on scenario B, if the unit charged was 3 or 4 rows deep, the first row is destroyed, the second row is pursued. Does the third row become the new supporting unit and therefore considered part of the combat?
So, if the second row is destroyed, the 3rd row can't strand and shoot as the attackers will pursue, not advance. But combat will stop at that point as 2 rounds had been fought.

Offline Aldhick

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Re: Supporting Stands query
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2017, 10:49:20 AM »
Thanks for the clarification, that makes sense and changes some of the dynamics.

Expanding on scenario B, if the unit charged was 3 or 4 rows deep, the first row is destroyed, the second row is pursued. Does the third row become the new supporting unit and therefore considered part of the combat?
So, if the second row is destroyed, the 3rd row can't strand and shoot as the attackers will pursue, not advance. But combat will stop at that point as 2 rounds had been fought.

exactly. Deep formations make infantry much more resistent against cavalry frontal charges.
WM - Toomb Kings
My Mordheim guys (and gals)
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t2734-aldhick-s-gangs

Offline Clawlessdragon

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Re: Supporting Stands query
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2017, 06:21:27 PM »
Nice, thinking I should invest in a Dwarf army now  ;D

Offline cjbennett22

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Re: Supporting Stands query
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2017, 06:00:52 PM »
if a second row of infantry, dark green in the diagram, is now part of the combat and needs to retreat with the combat and not make way then overall it would be easier to kill infantry with dropping flyers behind combat right?

is there a way the support can still make way?

Offline Clawlessdragon

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Re: Supporting Stands query
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2017, 07:10:45 PM »
Good question, I forgot that you could make way by going sideways. I thought it was by the shortest distance. Considering how supporting stands are locked into combat in WMR, it seems they move with the front rank, with no chance to rearrange or move aside, out of combat. .. I'd be interested to see the answer to

Offline Toothpick

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Re: Supporting Stands query
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2017, 08:47:19 PM »
Hi,
I thought you moved directly away from the enemy unit with the most touching stands, as per page 45 paragraph 5.

Offline CrankyDragon

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Re: Supporting Stands query
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2017, 09:03:22 PM »
if a second row of infantry, dark green in the diagram, is now part of the combat and needs to retreat with the combat and not make way then overall it would be easier to kill infantry with dropping flyers behind combat right?

is there a way the support can still make way?

Under the SUPPORTING COMBAT section, "Units are automatically included in any combat engagement where they support. This means they are affected by the combat result and the usual option apply. This is covered in the following sections under Retreats and Winner Options."

This would suggest that supporting units follow the same rules for retreats as the unit it is supporting. Thus if an enemy unit is blocking their retreat the supporting unit would be destroyed as per usual.

Offline Aquahog

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Re: Supporting Stands query
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2017, 10:55:07 PM »
The support will be removed if there are enemy stands blocking its path. There is no way for support to make way anymore.

Offline cjbennett22

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Re: Supporting Stands query
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2017, 01:41:05 AM »
good to know, flyers = good  :)