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Author Topic: [AL] Goblin army  (Read 2239 times)

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Offline Aldhick

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[AL] Goblin army
« on: December 22, 2016, 08:46:05 AM »
by Greenskinchief

issue: Doom Diver too good for its point cost
solution: Reduce hits to 2 per stand

issue: Goblin heroes cannot ride Wyverns
solution: Allow Goblin heroes to ride Wywerns
WM - Toomb Kings
My Mordheim guys (and gals)
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t2734-aldhick-s-gangs

Offline honestmistake

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Re: [AL] Goblin army
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2017, 12:55:44 AM »
Goblins are a very weak army, yes the Doom Diver is very good for the points but as it's providing some much needs (and very flavoursome) ranged oomph I dont really see it as a problem that needs addressing. The hero/general mount is an issue though as this really is the worse possible army to put a general in combat 😐 I would love to see a balanced mechanic for Goblin fanatics but cant think of one I like enough to suggest 😢

Offline Rowlybot

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Re: [AL] Goblin army
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2017, 08:46:03 AM »
Hmm, I've thought about Fanatics before.

I always mused that they can be bought as an upgrade for goblin units (as per Skirmishers in Empire armies) In the first round they cause one automatic no armour save hit. Or if that's not 'strong' enough, make them really expensive upgrades that do d6 automatic no armour save hits - but I think that it's too close to the 28mm Fanatics and that doesn't cross the scale well - hence I always thought 1 automatic wound instead.

But I can't ever fathom the points costs of things to come up with a balanced cost for such an upgrade.

Not that I ever have a goblin army, I just always thought it a little strange that the loony little buggers were omitted in the first place.

Offline honestmistake

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Re: [AL] Goblin army
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2017, 11:01:55 AM »
Best I could come up with was a upgrading 1 normal hero per 1000 points to a +3 attack hero that must be attached to a specific unit... that unit becomes immune to fear and must pursue enemies in combat.

Offline Lex

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Re: [AL] Goblin army
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2017, 11:17:01 AM »
Hmm, I've thought about Fanatics before.

I always mused that they can be bought as an upgrade for goblin units (as per Skirmishers in Empire armies) In the first round they cause one automatic no armour save hit. Or if that's not 'strong' enough, make them really expensive upgrades that do d6 automatic no armour save hits - but I think that it's too close to the 28mm Fanatics and that doesn't cross the scale well - hence I always thought 1 automatic wound instead.

But I can't ever fathom the points costs of things to come up with a balanced cost for such an upgrade.

Not that I ever have a goblin army, I just always thought it a little strange that the loony little buggers were omitted in the first place.

Upgrade for ANY infantry units, one automatic S&S hit, per stand contacted, when charged the first time in the game, even if not equipped with missile weapons.

That is the easiest sollution

that is the easiest

Offline greenskinchief

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Re: [AL] Goblin army
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2017, 01:21:16 PM »
liking your idea Lex, simple is best I have trialed an extra d6 attacks in the first combat the unit joins, cost to upgrade a  goblin unit with fanatics 5pts,  limit of 2/1000pts.

Offline Rowlybot

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Re: [AL] Goblin army
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2017, 02:22:47 PM »
Upgrade for ANY infantry units, one automatic S&S hit, per stand contacted, when charged the first time in the game, even if not equipped with missile weapons.

That is the easiest sollution

that is the easiest

I like that.

Offline honestmistake

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Re: [AL] Goblin army
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2017, 02:35:01 PM »

Upgrade for ANY infantry units, one automatic S&S hit, per stand contacted, when charged the first time in the game, even if not equipped with missile weapons.

That is the easiest sollution

that is the easiest

I like it but don't think it should be any infantry unit as that would include Trolls! It's even more problematic if they were available to OnG armies as well as just pure Goblin ones. Another issue is that the unit gains no benefit if it is the attacker :/

I do agree that any rule for them needs to be simple which is a shame as I would love to see those S&S hits have a chance to cause confusion  :o

Offline forbes

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Re: [AL] Goblin army
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2017, 07:13:36 PM »
if you want it to apply when attacking as well, then give 1 automatic hit per stand on the first attack.

You can only use the 1 free attack once, either for S&S or when charging.

Offline Lex

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Re: [AL] Goblin army
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2017, 07:53:24 PM »

Upgrade for ANY infantry units, one automatic S&S hit, per stand contacted, when charged the first time in the game, even if not equipped with missile weapons.

That is the easiest sollution

that is the easiest

I like it but don't think it should be any infantry unit as that would include Trolls! It's even more problematic if they were available to OnG armies as well as just pure Goblin ones. Another issue is that the unit gains no benefit if it is the attacker :/

I do agree that any rule for them needs to be simple which is a shame as I would love to see those S&S hits have a chance to cause confusion  :o

yeah, sorry, should have noted GOBLIN infantry units
and yes, you could then also allow them in regular greenskins

we playtested a lot of variations.
  • Having them "run wild" on the battlefield creates a LOT of hassle and bookkeeping, but it is possible. In that case, any units that they contact becomes confused.
  • THe "original" fluff had them deployed mostly defensively I think, but you could opt to allow them used offensive, in which case I would choose to make them a 1 auto-hit per unit (instead of stand-contacted)
  • You can opt to make their effect more random. for each unit that has Fanatics, roll a d6 when you want to release them: 1-3 the number of fanatics released, 4 failure to launch, retain ability 5 failure to launch, loose ability 6 failure to launch, unit becomes confused 

But as stated..... KISS it as much as possible

Offline honestmistake

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Re: [AL] Goblin army
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2017, 09:13:44 PM »
Not sure on the "defensive" thing as I am pretty sure all movement halted as soon as units closed to 6" and the fanatics were released. Movement continued once their effect was resolved (including the 'host unit' possibly moving through them! Indiscriminate carnage and mayhem were the order of the day and it certainly paid to charge host units at the enemy to sow chaos before the
 arrived to take advantage 😈

Actually, rethinking the whole thing I think S&S auto hits for each stand is the way to go add in a chance to cause confusion and they would make a great addition to greenskin armies!

Offline greenskinchief

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Re: [AL] Goblin army
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2017, 10:52:27 AM »
aside from the fanatic issue, the current goblin army list is missing units that can clear dense terrain, apart from trolls which are almost impossible to command, there is nothing hard hitting that can enter woods, ruins marshy ground etc,
one possible fix would be to include goblin spider riders from savage orc list and giant spiders, goblin guard from   BOFA, these would make the list a bit more balanced and allow the army to actually attack rather than just use artillery and wait to be attacked.
any input eagerly awaited?