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Author Topic: The Starlight's Edge and Kiranthrasil Moonhunter  (Read 3020 times)

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Offline Fr05ty

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The Starlight's Edge and Kiranthrasil Moonhunter
« on: April 08, 2016, 06:23:07 AM »
Here's an Eldar ship and its captain that I ported over from a Rogue Trader campaign. Hope it's not overpowered. I'd appreciate any comments on the ship (Starlight's Edge) and the Eldar Corsair Lord (Kiranthrasil Moonhunter), both in terms of story and rules.
This is all intended to be used with the Eldar's MMS 1.9b supplement.

Right, now to the important stuff:

Starlight's Edge - 345 points


^ Obviously that's not how it'd look, but I don't know how to produce the schematics for it :( Help?

The Starlight’s Edge is the flagship and personal vessel of Corsair Prince Kiranthrasil Moonhunter; exactingly crafted for Kiranthrasil by the famous artisans of Craftworld Kinshara, it is unique in the galaxy. Closely resembling a cross between an Eclipse cruiser and 2 Shadowhunter destroyers, the Starlight’s Edge is a surprisingly nimble ship, even for the standards of the Eldar, and carries a deadly array of armament. No expense was spared when crafting the Starlight’s Edge, its surface adorned with gems, its solar sails glimmering against the void, its wraithbone painstakingly groomed to harden like no other and its shields finely tuned to hide it and protect it from small debris.
Throughout its time as Kiranthrasil’s flagship, the Starlight’s Edge has participated in hundreds of raids, seemingly appearing from nowhere to destroy any who don’t surrender. Not all raids have been easy; on numerous occasions it has suffered devastating blows only to have the crystal spiders that inhabit its hull repair it in the midst of battle. During one such raid, the Starlight’s Edge was engaged by a group of 3 Siluria light cruisers. After destroying one of them and driving another one off, the “Scintilla’s Glory” tried to broadside the Starlight’s Edge, to which Kiranthrasil replied with a full frontal salvo and in a moment of daring rammed the heavily damaged “Scintilla’s Glory”, splitting it in half. This is one of the few documented instances where an Eldar vessel has rammed another ship.
The Starlight’s Edge is a vessel worthy of standing amongst the best the Eldar have to offer. Power, grace and beauty in a single package; a symbol of Kinshara’s craft and of Kinshara’s hero. The Starlight’s Edge with Kiranthrasil at its helm, through them the might of the Eldar’s bright past shines again.


Type/Hits Speed Turns Shields Armour Turrets
Battlecruiser/815/20/25cm902/Holofields5+4
ArmamentRng/SpdFirepower/StrArc
Dorsal pulsar lance30cm1Front/Left/Right
Prow weapons battery45cm6Front
Prow phantom lances30cm2Front
Keel torpedoes30cm4Front
Keel launch bayAs assault craft2-

The Starlight's Edge carries Darkstar fighters (speed: 30cm) and Eagle bombers (speed: 20cm).

Special rules:
  • Polarization Field: A low-level energy bubble surrounds the Starlight’s Edge, channelling space debris away from and around the station. The station never risks suffering a hit for being in contact with blast markers and ignores all effects of solar flares.
  • Crystal Web: A sizable colony of crystal spiders have been introduced to the hull, greatly enhancing the ship’s chances of survival. If the ship has no critical damage, roll a number of D6 equal to the number of hits it has remaining, recovering 1HP if any rolls of 6 are made. No more than 1HP can be regained in this manner per turn, regardless of how many rolls of 6 are made.
  • Reinforced Wraithbone: The Starlight’s Edge may attempt to ram against ships with 4 starting hits or fewer.

Options:
  • The Starlight’s Edge may be equipped with boarding torpedoes for +10 points.
  • The Starlight’s Edge may upgrade its launch bays to carry Vampire Raiders (speed: 30cm) for +5 points and/or Vampire Hunters (speed: 20cm) for +20 points.

Kiranthrasil Moonhunter, Shadow Prince and Lord of the Aether Blades Corsairs - 70 points



Kiranthrasil is a very successful and famous Corsair Prince that roams the Halo Stars with his Corsair band, the Aether Blades. Originally hailing from the small craftworld of Kinshara, Kiranthrasil was of noble blood, but left his Craftworld to sate his wanderlust centuries ago. He has since assembled together an impressive Corsair band that strikes without fear throughout the Halo Stars and the Koronus Expanse, dealing lightning-quick strikes to seize their prize and disappear into the nebulas that are spread around in the sector. His corsair band of the Aether Blades has kept a very close relationship with the Kinshara Craftworld and has returned to defend the Craftworld and its interests on several occasions. His fearless leadership in charge of his band is almost as impressive as his personal prowess in close combat, often leading assaults himself upon those that board his ship or boarding other ships. His blades have ended the lives of many an intruder, taking glee in the joy that combat offers.
During the Chaos Incursion of 247.M41 to Kinshara, the Aether Knights responded to the incursion by mobilising their fleets and forces. They fought a deadly skirmish on the space surrounding the Craftworld and taking out the Chaos fleet a single vessel at a time while the Craftworld fleet took care of ships in the Craftworld’s proximity. The few enemy forces that managed to land on Kinshara were swiftly annihilated by the combined Craftworld and Corsair forces. This aid to the Craftworld was deeply appreciated as Kiranthrasil was hailed as a hero, having saved the Craftworld from a potentially catastrophic invasion. He was dearly rewarded for his actions, having received numerous gifts from the Craftworld artisans; from gemstones, armour and gear to several Shadowhunter destroyers for his corsairs. The greatest prize of all was without a doubt the Starlight’s Edge however.


Rules:
Kiranthrasil Moonhunter is a Shadow Prince Corsair Lord (Ld. 9) with a single fleet re-roll. Additionally he has an extra re-roll usable only on his ship. As with all Corsair Lords, he has a Bodyguard retinue as normal and any hit-and-run attempts against the ship he commands suffer a -1 modifier.
If he leads your fleet, he can take up to 4 Shadowhunter destroyers as if they were Corsair ships in all senses, not counting as reserves and can form squadrons with other Corsair escorts as normal.
Should you include both Kiranthrasil and the Starlight’s Edge in the same fleet, Kiranthrasil must be onboard the Starlight’s Edge as its flagship, even if a bigger ship is included in the fleet.


Right so the pricing I calculated like this:

The Starlight's Edge - 345 points:
245 for midway between Shadow and Eclipse
+15 for the extra range WB and 2 extra strength
+10 for extra move speed and turn
+20 for extra hits
+5 for extra turret
+20 for extra phantom lances
+10 for Polarization field
+20 for Crystal Web

Kiranthrasil Moonhunter - 70 points:
50 for Shadow Prince Corsair Lord
+15 for ship unique re-roll
+5 for hit-and-run defense modifier & Capability to take Shadowhunters

Please comment!!!

Offline Xca|iber

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Re: The Starlight's Edge and Kiranthrasil Moonhunter
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2016, 07:39:54 AM »
Alright. I'll do the ship first and the commander later... there's a bit to get through with this one.

First off, I'm seeing some conflict in the stat bar. We've got grand cruiser sizing (8 hits), better-than-cruiser speed (10/20/25 w/ +5 into the sun), escort maneuverability (90 turns), and battleship turrets (4)! It's definitely straining canon a bit, and mechanically I feel like it's already a bit much. For the sizing as it's been described, I feel like 10/20/25 speed (or even 10/15/20), 45 turns, and 3 turrets is plenty. This will put you at the Grand Cruiser level, which seems like a better fit class-wise for what you've described.

Looking at weapons, it's a lot like a Void Dragon that's gutted its WB and launch bays for torpedoes and better lances. In terms of consistency, the loadout is a little strange as well. Shadow/Phantom lances are not a common Eldar weapon (they only exist because the Shadowhunter explicitly had them), and mixing Phantom lances with Pulsar lances just seems like a recipe for confusion. Also, with Eldar maneuverability, you shouldn't need LFR on the pulsar - front should be enough. I'd probably go for Prow Pulsar (45cm S1 Front), Dorsal Pulsar (45cm S1 Front), and keep the rest the same.

Moving on to special rules... I think Polarization Field is plain unnecessary - it should almost never come up for this ship, and just clutters the rules to essentially say "immune in this really rare instance." Heck, I almost removed the rule for the Eldar space station when I did BFG:XR (although in that case, due to its slow movement the rule can still be relevant). I like the ramming rule, I think that's a neat unique touch. I don't know if I'm totally sold on the Crystal Web. With the current statline, it's definitely too much in my opinion, but if the stats are toned down like I suggested, it might be workable. If I had to change it, perhaps it would read more like AdMech EER, where you are only crippled after losing more than half your hits, and your weapons/turrets/shields are only reduced by 25% instead of 50% (which in this case would mean keeping most of your torpedoes, WB firepower, turrets, and all of your shields while crippled - a good deal I think).

The options look good as long as you tone down the stats. If it's launching boarders and Vampires, it's gotta be a relatively large ship, not something jinking around like a nimble escort.

That's it for now. I'll get to the commander later when I get the chance. If you make changes we can also reevaluate the cost.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 07:42:03 AM by Xca|iber »
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Offline horizon

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Re: The Starlight's Edge and Kiranthrasil Moonhunter
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2016, 06:35:16 PM »
Heya,
I kinda agree the ship has to much going for it at this point.

In the basic stats lowering the turrets to 3 will be sufficient enough.

For the weapons to keep it more fluent change the prow pulsar also in strength 2 phantom lances fixed forward.
Since you envision the mix with Shadowhunters the choice for this weapon is given.

As for the special rules: you made it fluffy with the ramming but the reinforced wraithbone isn't needed in my opinion. Just note that to usual Eldar rulings this vessel may attempt to ram at a negative (-3) modified leadership. So it really comes across as a desperate movement and not a daily routine.

The commander is good enough. Nice going.

Now build that ship.
 8)

Offline Xca|iber

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Re: The Starlight's Edge and Kiranthrasil Moonhunter
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2016, 07:25:58 PM »
Heya,
I kinda agree the ship has to much going for it at this point.

In the basic stats lowering the turrets to 3 will be sufficient enough.

For the weapons to keep it more fluent change the prow pulsar also in strength 2 phantom lances fixed forward.
Since you envision the mix with Shadowhunters the choice for this weapon is given.

As for the special rules: you made it fluffy with the ramming but the reinforced wraithbone isn't needed in my opinion. Just note that to usual Eldar rulings this vessel may attempt to ram at a negative (-3) modified leadership. So it really comes across as a desperate movement and not a daily routine.

The commander is good enough. Nice going.

Now build that ship.
 8)

If horizon says the stats are fine with 3 turrets, then it must be so!  ;D

I also agree that 2x Front phantom lance (S2) is better than what I suggested (it was late last night :P)
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Offline Fr05ty

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Re: The Starlight's Edge and Kiranthrasil Moonhunter
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2016, 05:10:56 AM »
Let me say that I'm extremely honoured that the venerable horizon has commented here. Xcaliber, as usual I deeply appreciate your comments :)

Ok, so on the comments:
- I didn't quite get what you meant about ramming as it currently is, thought the Eldar rules explicitly forbade the attempt to ram. You meant that instead of making it able to ram small ships, it should just be able to ram at -3 leadership, right?
- It has 8 hits because of the increased mass and stronger than normal armour. Both things conspire to make it 8 hits, don't think it breaks too much the balance.
- The pulsar should just be Front.
- Turns should be 45, not 90. I've checked the maneuverability from the RT ship compared to other ships which have 90 turns and it's not good enough, it's better than Eclipses and Shadows but not that much better.
- The loadout is that of an Eclipse cruiser in the game (2 keel and 2 prow weapon slots) but with the addition of the 2 shadowhunters (Hence the phantom lances). In terms of power, the weapons of an Eclipse require way too much power and there's really no way the extra shadowhunter solar sails (and the space of the additional structure) can accomodate for pulsar lances, after all it's not even a full shadowhunter's solar sails.
- On the turrets, I wanted it to make it 4 to differentiate it from the stock Eclipse as this ship has 3 turrets in the Rogue Trader game (all other Eldar ships have 1) which provides the fluff and mechanical comparisons for this.
- The Polarization Field I do agree it's a niche thing and I only put it there because of fluff, I actually took the rules from your Eldar Spire hehehehe
- Think the Crystal Web could better be represented by getting a bonus to repair rolls (+1), rolls extra dice (+2) or a re-roll on failed repair rolls, that way it's not so OP with the amount of hit points the Starlight's Edge has. (It'd still be sort of fluffy)

Would the changes above (changing turns to 45 instead of 90, the pulsar to just front, ramming to be at -3 Ld, removing the Polarization Field) be acceptable to make it balanced or more needs to be taken off??
It's really hard to modify too much of a ship I love due to RT since the stats and fluff for it are already written, but I'm trying to find the compromise between your feedback and what I feel comfortable changing :( Oh, I really like the phantom lances as they're there for fluff more than anything.

I'll put the revised version here so there's no confusion with all that wall of text :)

Starlight's Edge - 345 points
Type/Hits Speed Turns Shields Armour Turrets
Battlecruiser/815/20/25cm452/Holofields5+4
ArmamentRng/SpdFirepower/StrArc
Dorsal pulsar lance30cm1Front
Prow weapons battery45cm6Front
Prow phantom lances30cm2Front
Keel torpedoes30cm4Front
Keel launch bayAs assault craft2-

The Starlight's Edge carries Darkstar fighters (speed: 30cm) and Eagle bombers (speed: 20cm).

Special rules:
  • Crystal Web: A sizable colony of crystal spiders have been introduced to the hull, greatly enhancing the ship’s chances of survival. During damage control, the Starlight's Edge can always roll two extra die to repair critical hits. These dice can be used to repair critical rolls which normally can't be repaired.
  • The Starlight’s Edge may attempt to ram against enemy ships but suffers a -3 Leadership to this check as it's a desperate attempt.

Options:
  • The Starlight’s Edge may be equipped with boarding torpedoes for +10 points.
  • The Starlight’s Edge may upgrade its launch bays to carry Vampire Raiders (speed: 30cm) for +5 points and/or Vampire Hunters (speed: 20cm) for +20 points.

And now I get to my favourite part! Point comparisons!!!
Lets compare to the 4 closest ships, the Void Stalker, Wyrm, Void Dragon and the Supernova:

The Void Stalker - (470 points)
For the extra 125 points from the Starlight's Edge to the Void Stalker you get:
+15cm lance range
+3 pulsar lances
+2 WB strength
+Flexible fire arcs
+2 Launch bays
+1 shield
+2 hits
-5cm speed
-2 phantom lances
-Bonus to repairing crits
-Possibility to ram

The Wyrm - (470 points)
For the extra 125 points from the Starlight's Edge to the Wyrm you get:
+15cm lance range
+3 pulsar lances
+10 WB strength
+4 torpedoes
+1 shield
+2 hits
-5cm speed
-2 phantom lances
-2 launch bays
-Bonus to repairing crits
-Possibility to ram

The Void Dragon - (320 points)
For the extra 25 points from the Void Dragon to the Starlight's Edge:
+5cm speed when towards sun
+1 turret
+2 phantom lances
+4 torpedoes
+15cm WB range
+Bonus to repairing crits
+Possibility to ram
-3 pulsar lances
-2 launch bays
-10 WB strength

The Supernova - (280 points)
For the extra 65 points from the Supernova to the Starlight's Edge:
+5cm speed
+1 turret
+2 phantom lances
+2 launch bays
+6 WB
+4 torpedoes
+Bonus to repairing crits
+Possibility to ram
-15cm range on lances
-4 pulsar lances


We can also extrapolate from the Wyrm that 4 torpedoes are equal to a single 45cm pulsar lance.
Also, from the Dragonship we can extrapolate the 4WB are the equivalent of a pulsar lance and 2 torpedoes are the equivalent of a launch bay.

Further comments appreciated!

PS: Glad you liked the commander! The point was to make him cheap and flavorful. He's not the best admiral, but it does show his combat mastery in ship corridors and the great gear he carries.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 06:25:10 PM by Fr05ty »

Offline Fr05ty

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Re: The Starlight's Edge and Kiranthrasil Moonhunter
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2016, 06:24:01 PM »
Any comments on the last iteration of the Starlight's Edge (the post above)? I'm working on getting the schematic done for the Starlight's Edge on Photoshop and then 3d-modelling it once I get my 3d printer.

Offline horizon

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Re: The Starlight's Edge and Kiranthrasil Moonhunter
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2016, 08:37:41 PM »
Let me say that I'm extremely honoured that the venerable horizon has commented here.
;D

lol, thanks for the appreciation.

While I still think the dorsal pulsar should be a phantom variant as well. And the turrets should still be 3. I think it is all well overall.

Now I am really curious on how the model will look when you print it.
Good luck with that.