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Author Topic: Movement after failed order  (Read 5294 times)

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Offline Aldhick

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Movement after failed order
« on: November 02, 2015, 07:19:20 AM »
Haven't any of you played with the idea of allowing units, which failed their first order, to move at last in some restricted way? I came across this idea after I've started with Epic where this is the case when you fail Initiative roll.
  Let say you can move half your movement (and not charge ofc) after failing the first order. Wouldn't this lessen the frustration from what I understand are the most painful moments of otherwise brillant game - having often half of your army just standing and doing nothing just because of bad rolls and with this connected absolute unability to react even on most actual threat of devastating attack just by failing one roll (e.g. enemy units end up close to my unit's rear and if I fail to give it an order the unit/brigade is just standing there and waiting unitl it gets it into it's back next turn)?
 Alternatives to half move may be just reform, or 10 cm move (I'm aware of connected issues such flyers or artillery - that would have to be sorted some other way or just excluded).
  Any thoughts?
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Offline Stormwind

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Re: Movement after failed order
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2015, 10:17:04 AM »
Blitzkrieg Commander which is similar to Warmaster viz. command rolls has a system where your "General" can risk going back to a failed unit/brigade at a -1 penalty and try to move them.
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Offline Lex

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Re: Movement after failed order
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2015, 10:29:47 AM »
<<<----    what he said !

That would work rather nicely

Offline Aquahog

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Sv: Movement after failed order
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2015, 11:02:18 AM »
That sounds good. It has an obvious cost and is limited (only one general) but I can imagine plenty of opportunities when I'd be willing to pay it. Now can the general issue several consequtive orders to a unit that failed to receive orders by another character? I assume the penalty stays along for all of them in that case? My copy of BKC is currently packed away.

Offline Lex

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Re: Sv: Movement after failed order
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2015, 11:09:39 AM »
That sounds good. It has an obvious cost and is limited (only one general) but I can imagine plenty of opportunities when I'd be willing to pay it. Now can the general issue several consequtive orders to a unit that failed to receive orders by another character? I assume the penalty stays along for all of them in that case? My copy of BKC is currently packed away.

Cumulative penalty and failing a General's order ends command fase

Offline Aldhick

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Re: Movement after failed order
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2015, 12:29:21 PM »
Sounds interesting... gonna check it. Thanx
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Offline Aquahog

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Sv: Movement after failed order
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2015, 01:40:58 PM »
As I suspected then. Liking the idea of it a lot.

Offline Grimnir

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Re: Movement after failed order
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2015, 08:55:55 AM »
There's just one think I don't like about this house rule (about general going back to a unit which failed a command roll). Well, actually, it's something in the "soul" of it.

If an important brigade has been standing in your deployment zone for 2 turns, you can adjust the pace of advance of the moving part of the army and swap your characters so that the general can command those laggards. Once the general kicks them in their butts and makes them move forward, you can swap your characters back.
So there is a mechanism for it. If you're not using it, then the brigade stuck behind is probably not so important.

If a command - movement of a unit or brigade is crucial to you, you should have your general issue the command.

The house rule suggested above (about general going back to a unit which failed a command roll) does not really help you with the most crucial business. Because it should be the general issuing those commands.
So it would help you with relatively unimportant commands.
Moreover, if you want to go back to that unit with your general, he'd still need to be close to that unit if you want to have a good chance to succeed in that command roll. So why would not the general himself be issuing that command, if it is important?


I would suggest something like this:
If your general fails at issuing order to a unit or brigade, the unit/brigade can still move at half-pace but cannot charge, as long as it meets the following conditions: There was no command penalty for distance, command penalty for casualties was not higher than 1, and it is not flying.

What do you guys think about it?
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Offline Dranask1

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Re: Movement after failed order
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2015, 10:53:25 AM »
I play BKC2 and I like the mechanic there.
However I don't want similar in WM otherwise I may as well just play one game I like differences in my rule's sets.

My solution to laggard Brigades that damn well should move is 'The Crown of Command'.
When it become apparent a Brigade has to move next turn whatever, then that Brigade is moved by the general using the CofC as his first command of his turn. All you have to do is roll 10 or less, if your dice won't do that bin them!

Of course subsequent commands to that brigade/unit are -1 on his normal command value as per normal.
If it is really important then I will have moved the General within reach to maximize the 2nd and subsequent moves. for example I could put him 39cms ahead of their position so that they are within 19cm for the second command.

I have upset my opponent doing this getting my trolls in difficult terrain and within 20 cm to charge his elves. Normally I'd need a 5, but rolling a 10 is loads easier.

You might point out 100 points for the CofC is a lot, it could be another unit you say, but if it gets your elite 500 point brigade into action rather than picnicking in a distant field it has to be worth every cent.  :D
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Offline Stormwind

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Re: Movement after failed order
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2015, 03:23:16 PM »
Just want to say that Mark's Damned Pink Dice combined with the "Crown of Command" is normally a decisive combo even for a low command army of squabbling greenskins!
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Offline Dranask1

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Re: Movement after failed order
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2015, 06:59:35 AM »
Just want to say that Mark's Damned Pink Dice combined with the "Crown of Command" is normally a decisive combo even for a low command army of squabbling greenskins!

Thing is Ben when they see your chaos or Elf units they don't squabble they put their differences to one side. :)

But seriously and this isn't pointed at Ben as I have five other WM players I've played against frequently.
I do feel a player shouldn't be in a position where he is dependant on 1 roll. If elements of your army aren't moving forwards, maybe you should consolidate the position of those that have and concentrate on pulling the laggard units forwards.

IMO the games isn't about charging forwards, but advancing to a point where initiative can take over. Allowing small brigades to move forwards on their own invites their destruction, unless they are deliberate 'bait' to pull the enemy within range of your badass units.

Where I have charged an isolated flank forwards, invariably I will lose the units, but I will charge it forwards if tactically it will pull the enemy's line apart and cause sufficient damage that it is worth losing. By placing the enemy in a position of choice; 'does he consolidate or advance a broken line?' If he chooses the later then he puts himself in a position where his failed order can give me an advantage. 

You could argue I am relying on the opponent failing his dice rolls, I'd argue he was relying on passing them.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 07:06:40 AM by Dranask1 »
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Offline Aldhick

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Re: Movement after failed order
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2015, 05:05:35 PM »
You got point here Dranask. Thanx guys for your input.
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Offline Rowlybot

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Re: Movement after failed order
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2015, 09:59:44 AM »
games isn't about charging forwards, but advancing to a point where initiative can take over.
Welp that's the Undead screwed then!  :D

Offline Dranask1

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Re: Movement after failed order
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2015, 11:07:45 AM »
games isn't about charging forwards, but advancing to a point where initiative can take over.
Welp that's the Undead screwed then!  :D

Yes that would appear to be true, but a different army = different tactics. [Which is why I like this game so much!]
Funnily enough I play undead as my 2nd army after O&G.

CofC again a vital item, they just have to wait for the impact and have support, that's why they move in columns rather than line.
Maybe a line of archers in front to take the initial pain and shoot at incoming troops, then if not wiped they die as your units don't give way.
As no opponent seems able to refuse an advance, they will hopefully be taken out by the three columns of undead they have contacted.
If they do refuse and withdraw, then CofC in next turn will ensure contact. Raise dead behind helps here too.  ;)
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Offline Aquahog

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Re: Movement after failed order
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2015, 04:23:10 PM »
Advance head on into three fresh units of skeleton warriors in column? That would depend on what I'm charging with and whether support is counted before (popular house rule) or after casualties are removed. It's not a given.