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Author Topic: The BFG: Expanded Revised Rules Thread (MAJOR Update 04/12/2017)  (Read 32915 times)

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Offline Xca|iber

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The BFG: Expanded Revised Rules Thread (MAJOR Update 04/12/2017)
« on: September 19, 2015, 08:44:31 AM »
Hey everyone, it's me again! ;D I've made some progress on my little pet project and I figured now would be a good time to setup an "official" thread of sorts (insofar as anything I do could be considered "official"). In case you didn't see my previous thread, here's what it's about:

(click to show/hide)

And that's enough outta me - you're here for rules! Continue on below to see what's available.

The BFG:XR Rules
(Change logs are included in each document!)

MAIN RULEBOOK - (Last Update: Apr 13, 2017)
(click to show/hide)

SCENARIOS / CAMPAIGN RULES
(click to show/hide)

SPACE MARINES - (Last Update: Apr 3, 2017)
(click to show/hide)

ELDAR (MMS) - (Last Update: Mar 17, 2017)
(click to show/hide)

DARK ELDAR - (Last Update: Apr 12, 2017)
(click to show/hide)

NECRONS - (Last Update: Mar 2, 2017)
(click to show/hide)

INQUISITION / GREY KNIGHTS - (Last Update: Apr 3, 2017)
(click to show/hide)

TYRANIDS - (Last Update: Mar 2, 2017)
(click to show/hide)

IMPERIAL NAVY - (Last Update: Mar 5, 2017)
(click to show/hide)

ADEPTUS MECHANICUS - (Last Update: Mar 2, 2017)
(click to show/hide)

CHAOS - (Last Update: Mar 28, 2017)
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ORKS - (Last Update: Apr 1, 2017)
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TAU EMPIRE - (Last Update: May 28, 2017)
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ROGUE TRADERS - (Last Update: May 5, 2017)
(click to show/hide)

PLANETARY DEFENSES / TRANSPORTS - (Last Update: Mar 26, 2017)
(click to show/hide)

+++++++++++++++++

Please let me know if you find any typos, formatting errors, or other problems (such as incorrect rules or changes I forgot to list). You can pm me your concerns, post them in this thread, or email them to me at the address below in the spoiler text:
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 06:48:11 AM by Xca|iber »
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Offline horizon

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Re: The BFG 2015 Rules Thread
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2015, 09:22:28 AM »
Hmmm, since you mixed official and non-official rules I need to look where I can place this in the official and non official rules thread (the sticky one).

Good job though!

Offline Xca|iber

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Re: The BFG 2015 Rules Thread
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2015, 09:35:44 AM »
Thanks! Based on the amount of changes I've had to make (plus using BFG:R as a baseline for my fleet lists), I'd wager this qualifies as mostly "non-official," perhaps with a note that the main rulebook is compatible with classic BFG+FAQ 2010 games.
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Offline Seahawk

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Re: The BFG 2015 Rules Thread
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2015, 06:47:21 PM »
Maybe it can finally be recognized as what I've been calling it all this time anyway: BFG:FE  (Fan Edition), as it's not at all official, but quite cool.

Offline Thinking Stone

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The BFG 2015 Rules Thread
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2015, 09:14:22 AM »
At last, I'm back! Well, at least hopefully this Tapatalk stuff will help me post slightly more often than my current < 1/year rate.... Admittedly, not having any BFG players anymore means a lot less time spent thinking about it :/

Impressive start, Xca|iber! It's good to see someone back working on this sort of project! I wonder if it might be a more achievable goal to have some kind of annual updating scheme, giving people a year to test things and reducing the pressure to get things absolutely 'correct' in one go (assuming that is possible in the first place, of course...).

Offline Xca|iber

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Re: The BFG 2015 Rules Thread
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2015, 07:20:37 PM »
Impressive start, Xca|iber! It's good to see someone back working on this sort of project! I wonder if it might be a more achievable goal to have some kind of annual updating scheme, giving people a year to test things and reducing the pressure to get things absolutely 'correct' in one go (assuming that is possible in the first place, of course...).

Thanks! To answer your concern, I'm not too worried about the feasibility of the project since the vast majority of what I'm doing is simple editing and formatting. Plaxor, afterimagedan, and the rest of the community here did most of the heavy lifting in terms of balance and mechanics - it's made my efforts considerably easier to say the least! I haven't really needed to make too many adjustments on that front. Aside from that, fixing other kinds of errors (typos, stuff I missed, formatting mistakes, etc) is a quick and painless process since I've recreated the documents in InDesign - so I've got full control over the text and layout.

In other news, I'm about 30% done with the Tyranids list, so I should have that posted relatively soon (it's a fairly short document with only a little formatting required).
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Offline Thinking Stone

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The BFG 2015 Rules Thread
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2015, 02:05:24 AM »
Indeed, Plaxor and afterimagedan did a great job starting the discussions and compiling the results! I think this kind of editing really makes a document look professional: it might not have much effect on gameplay or rules-robustness, but it definitely increases the impression the audience gets upon reading the rules! Having it all manipulatable in InDesign is really handy, too!

Incidentally, a friend and I once estimated the maximum size of a Tyranid beastie for a university class. Assuming Beastie used convection currents to transfer nutrients around the body, we worked out the maximum size to be approximately ten times the size of a blue whale (of course neglecting other silly things like energy source requirements, food requirements etc. :p).

Offline Jimmy Zimms

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Re: The BFG 2015 Rules Thread
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2015, 01:08:18 PM »
Cool beans!

My only concerns would be
1. Naming convention makes it appear to be "official rules", whatever that even means, versus a really awesomely polished fan alternate.
2. Denoting somewhere what's fan additions (aka your local house-rules) to the core text
As we Imperials say, "The Emperor [class battleship] Protects..."

Offline Xca|iber

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Re: The BFG 2015 Rules Thread
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2015, 12:47:27 AM »
Cool beans!

My only concerns would be
1. Naming convention makes it appear to be "official rules", whatever that even means, versus a really awesomely polished fan alternate.
2. Denoting somewhere what's fan additions (aka your local house-rules) to the core text

Thanks! I'll try to do my best to answer your concerns:

1. The naming convention evolved out of my (admittedly uncreative) organization structure. While these can be changed later (probably when everything is done, if it's still a problem), for now I'll probably keep it just for the sake of how my development directories are setup. Aside from that, I think most people understand that BFG is a discontinued game and that any new rulesets for it are at least partially fan-made. I've also included a disclaimer to this effect on the first page of the main rulebook.

2. With regards to the "core" text (by which I'm assuming you mean the rulebook?), there is only one partial change which is outside the rules given by the original document and FAQ 2010, which is the change to how the armada ordnance is distributed to different fleets (as noted in the change log).

In terms of other changes that have been made, I guess I should explain my process: I've established for myself a set of three "primary directives" that guide where and how I make changes to the existing rules, if any. In no particular order, they are:

  • The rules for each faction must match their fluff as much as possible.
  • The rules for each faction must be as clean and concise as possible, minimizing both redundancy and the need to flip between books (these sometimes conflict - so I try to balance them).
  • The rules for each faction must be as balanced as possible and have a minimum of mechanical changes.

In some cases, I have simply added house-rules which are listed as optional and are entirely self-contained. Whether they are used has minimal effect on the game (for example, the DE Dracon/Archon power struggle rule). In other cases, I have made changes as necessary to maintain consistency of the rules both internally and with these directives (such as the Tyranids getting a separate minefield entry which produces phage mines). Those kinds of changes cannot easily be ignored without concatenating problems on account of other changes.

I realize this might put off some people due to the greater "un-officialness" that this ruleset has compared to the BFG 2007/2010 FAQs or BFG:R and BFG:FR, but I hope that anyone interested will give it a chance. I've done my best to put all of the major changes in the change log, and I'm willing to adjust things as necessary if there are serious balance concerns. However, I would be remiss if I didn't say that I stand by the changes I've made, and believe they are consistent the views of BFG:R and the FAQ 2010, insofar as I understand them.
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Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

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Re: The BFG 2015 Rules Thread
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2015, 01:52:46 PM »
To me a change log and simple disclaimer are all that is required.  Excellent work. I plan on using this near exclusively once completed, just for ease of use. I generally find any rule set still feels like bfg, so best to go with the easiest and most balanced.
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Offline Thinking Stone

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The BFG 2015 Rules Thread
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2015, 01:49:02 AM »
Yea, Xca|iber, I echo the suggestion of a concrete way to recognise the original, official rules, apart from your additions—often, when poor Thinking Stones of the future are trawling through archaic rules they have a desire to see the original conception of the rules for themselves, so they can see how the additions fit in for themselves—it gives them a better understanding of how everything works together, and how they might modify things for themselves... :).

Personally, I would appreciate some kind of indication in-text with some kind of explanatory note about the changes (perhaps in footnotes or section notes to keep such things from cluttering the main text), though a well-referenced change-log would achieve the same thing.

I think this also can help increase the acceptance of the ruleset: it gives people the chance to understand what's different and why. Like with anything in life, if one gives reasoning people a chance to actually reason, they'll go with the option they think is most reasonable. There's actually some research on that too :P (I forget the exact references a, but Lifehacker has a few articles with good references about this stuff).

I, for one, really appreciate the efforts to concatenate the diverse official sources of rules! I think it's a very worthwhile goal. Thank you for your efforts!

Some food for thought,
Thinking Stone

Offline Bessemer

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Re: The BFG 2015 Rules Thread
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2015, 09:47:08 PM »
As the original had a designers notes at the end, that would be the best place to put a change log, as a nod to the BBB :)
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Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

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Re: The BFG 2015 Rules Thread
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2015, 10:27:54 PM »
As the original had a designers notes at the end, that would be the best place to put a change log, as a nod to the BBB :)

Concur. To me the official rules are easy enough to find here or via friendly gamers on the FB community. No need to clutter such a lovely rule set with notes all over the place.

However, did you notice Xca|iber that all your pages are right pages? So if you print them double sided all the page numbers are in the bottom right corner...

Though overall you are making me want to overhaul my ASC 2.0
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Offline Xca|iber

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Re: The BFG 2015 Rules Thread
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2015, 11:46:46 PM »
Ah! Lots of stuff to reply to... That'll teach me to leave for a few days!  ;D

Regarding concerns about noting changes: Gothmog pretty much already covered why I don't have "in-text" notations; mainly it's just too difficult to manage the space while trying to cram everything in the change log into the margins of the text. As for putting the changes in the documents themselves (at the end) - that is something I've been considering for the last few days and I think it should be relatively painless to add a mini-change log page to the end of each one.

However, did you notice Xca|iber that all your pages are right pages? So if you print them double sided all the page numbers are in the bottom right corner...

Ah, I see someone noticed... ;D I'll admit to a bit of time-saving here. AFAIK, InDesign doesn't let you automate the process of mirroring page numbers, which means that I'll have to make duplicates of all my master pages for Left and Right aligned pages. It's something I wanted to do (from a polishing perspective), but when I started out I decided against it due to the additional tedium involved, and the fact that in digital format it isn't as noticeable. I'll see about changing it up since several people have expressed interest in printing.
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Offline Thinking Stone

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The BFG 2015 Rules Thread
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2015, 03:54:23 AM »

Concur. To me the official rules are easy enough to find here or via friendly gamers on the FB community. No need to clutter such a lovely rule set with notes all over the place.

Ah, but mighty Gothmog: one assumes that one has access to such a FB community or that this place or such things will still exist in (say) ten years time! That question might be irrelevant then :P but that's what I was referring to: this document could turn up anywhere and it might be helpful for readers of the future to have those notes included together with the document, when things might not be so clear and sensible as they are now :). I know, personally, that there are documents I've dug up in my searches where I wish designers' notes had been included because the original rules are no longer to be found!

Anyways, it is, of course, all up to Xca|iber: all I offer are mere suggestions to be taken or left as desired :)