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Author Topic: Empire Steam Tank  (Read 8967 times)

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Offline calmacil

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Empire Steam Tank
« on: September 17, 2014, 10:48:38 PM »
I have an Empire army that i use occasionally. I have two steam tanks, but i never take them, they just seem weak.

Do you think Steam Tanks should have more than 3 hits? ........I was looking at the Stegadon with 4+ armour and 10 hits.


Offline Aldhick

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Re: Empire Steam Tank
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2014, 08:11:21 AM »
This is an ethernal topic :-)  But for a reason...  The fact is, that there is no real use for the steam tank in the game.. The superb defense has no real use. With so few attack and the rule that losing combat by just one point means destruction, it cannot charge on it's own - otherwise it would be very likely a suicide especially against supported infantry. And when you charge with ST to support other charging units, the enemy can almost always avoid attacking the ST and attack neighbouring stands instead. Furthermore you even cannot brigade it, so you need more orders to get it moved... so ST are really expensive and unefficient 3 combat attacs....

The less painful sollutions imo are to give it terror and/or monster/chariot charge bonus.

« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 08:13:08 AM by Aldhick »
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Offline forbes

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Re: Empire Steam Tank
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2014, 08:34:19 PM »
I've found it OK.

As it is such a narrow frontage, only 1 enemy stand (of infantry) can fight back. This gives you a fair chance to win due to your really good armour. It can be good to hold up a part of the front.

Offline Aldhick

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Re: Empire Steam Tank
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2014, 11:36:03 PM »
if you fight against cavalry, all stands fight back. If against single infantry unit, you are loosing one or two points even before the combat started due to support. If there are another friendly unit engaged, most often the stand touching the ST would have chance to direct its attack elsewhere...  regarding the fact you cannot afford to loose even by single point.... still cant see any advantage...
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Offline honestmistake

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Re: Empire Steam Tank
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2014, 03:53:41 AM »
As currently listed the Steam Tank has only 1 use, it is excellent for drawing missile fire while you advance your infantry. It's a mobile defended position with an awesome save which can really frustrate archers :)  Of course if your opponent fields heavy artillery (No Save) or worse Cannon (No Save,Ignores Defended Status) then all bets are off and you almost certainly should have left it at home :(

A real shame as it's such a lovely model and probably the Empires most 'Iconic' unit and really deserves some love.

Offline Geep

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Re: Empire Steam Tank
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2014, 11:44:13 AM »
I admit this is theoretical only- I have never used one- but I see their use as something that can absorb a cavalry or other heavy charge with little problem, giving other units a chance to counter attack.
A normal cavalry unit would get 9 attacks (charge+terror), of which only 3 hit and 2 would bounce off the save. The steam tank has few attacks, but does have the stand and shoot to help out- getting 1 hit back isn't too unlikely. Cavalry have no support, so I think there's a reasonable chance of the cavalry unit bouncing.
It can either do that, or absorb light missile fire as Honestmistake says.

I think infantry would be its weak point- it can't possibly cause enough casualties to counter the support combat bonuses.

Offline Aldhick

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Re: Empire Steam Tank
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2014, 02:12:15 PM »
ST doesn't cause terror. However the charging bonuses are negated by it's defended status. Well this might be a way how to use it, but it's still pretty limited, especially when dice rolls favoring just slightetly the opponent mean atumatic destruction. Too risky for 130 pts imo. 
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Offline calmacil

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Re: Empire Steam Tank
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2014, 05:06:54 PM »
I think the Steam Tanks roll should be that of an almost unstoppable unit. Not the hardest hitting or fastest unit, but sturdy and strong. Meaning your opponent has to commit a considerable force to bring it down.

With this in mind I would give the steam tank around 10 hits (this is from a DE & Orc player) and keep it's 3+ save

Points cost, I have no idea. The stegadon has 10 hits and a 4+ save, but more attacks.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 05:09:18 PM by calmacil »

Offline Geep

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Re: Empire Steam Tank
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2014, 03:49:17 AM »
The hits and save of the steam tank aren't really its problem- the fact that any lost combat destroys it is where the problem lies. 10 hits wouldn't improve that.

Offline calmacil

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Re: Empire Steam Tank
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2014, 07:59:39 AM »
The hits and save of the steam tank aren't really its problem- the fact that any lost combat destroys it is where the problem lies. 10 hits wouldn't improve that.
I've seen lots of people saying this, but i can't find that rule anywhere.

I've looked in the Steam Tank rules, and also there's a section on page 67 that talks about artillery in combat. It says ........... "artillery is vulnerable in combat....if it retreats it is automatically destroyed....Machines are more complex than artillery, and some have their own rules for fighting in combat..."

The Steam Tank is classed as a Machine, not artillery. So why is it destroyed if it retreats?

I've probably missed something really obvious, or a rule update  ;D ::)

Offline forbes

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Re: Empire Steam Tank
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2014, 04:58:51 PM »
The bit about destroyed if loosing a combat is in the Empire army list of the Living Rule Book - not the printed rule book.

It doesn't really help that there is a section of Steam Tank rules in the Artillery & Machines sections and the Empire Army list - and these aren't the same.

Offline calmacil

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Re: Empire Steam Tank
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2014, 04:19:23 PM »
Well bless my barnacles!!! you're right! I was looking at the Empire army in the rule book.

So is that list a fan-made list???

Offline Geep

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Re: Empire Steam Tank
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2014, 02:10:12 AM »
From what I understand, after WM was released fans/playtesters communicated with Rick Priestley- aka the maker of the game (I think it's him- don't have my book to check)- and the edits are basically official 'Warmaster 1.1', Warmaster 1.2', etc. changes. There's just no chance GW was going to release a new book.
Same for all of the armies in the separate armies document (not the trial/fan armies document)- all of the lists there are as official as they come (in fact that document may now be part of the LRB? It's been a while since I've looked).

Offline Aldhick

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Re: Empire Steam Tank
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2014, 07:40:18 AM »
I'm still not sure what the LRB is  :)  Has anybody seen it?  :D AFAIK the only really official book are those PDFs that were on GW web site before they cut the SG off - so that means   Rulebook part 1, part 2 and Armies - the same that are accesible on WM Army selector
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Offline andys

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Re: Empire Steam Tank
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2014, 05:29:16 PM »
I'm still not sure what the LRB is  :)  Has anybody seen it?  :D AFAIK the only really official book are those PDFs that were on GW web site before they cut the SG off - so that means   Rulebook part 1, part 2 and Armies - the same that are accesible on WM Army selector
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