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Author Topic: Vassal Warmaster  (Read 37988 times)

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Offline Geep

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Re: Vassal Warmaster
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2015, 01:11:25 AM »
Very nice!

For the wings going outside of the base- it just uses transparency. I've only done this on characters so far- the Gyrocopter sadly has clipped wings in-game. Ideally I'd like to make different layers within a single piece, so that units with bit over the edge aren't a problem, but haven't had the time to delve into how to do that yet.

I've played a game against my friend Ehlijen recently (still ongoing), and he elected to use your High Elf pieces over his- They are a different size to my Empire guys, but they look great. I'll post some pictures from the game when I have time (sadly it's a bit one-sided).

Playing the game has shown a few other things that need improvements, so expect another update probably within a week or two (and I'll add those two new units of yours in that update).

My local time is GMT +10:30, or maybe +9:30 or 11:30? Damn daylight savings. I'll have to check. Either way, I have holidays coming up where time of day will be little issue for me.

Offline Shapeshifter878

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Re: Vassal Warmaster
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2015, 08:39:26 AM »
Good to hear that you've got another game going and that the High Elves are looking ok on the battlefield!

After having some Java errors I finally got Vassal running with the WM mod and extensions. It looks pretty good so far and quite easy to use too. I like the skull point trackers..hehe..

Two things that came to my mind:

It would be convenient to have the the Hits, Attacks and Armour of the units accessible during combat to avoid using the rulebook.

Dice sounds - you'll probably add it later, but it makes it a bit easier to keep track of what's happening in the game. Here's a free to use one: http://soundbible.com/182-Shake-And-Roll-Dice.html

I have to say Ehlijen and yourself have done some great work on the sprites so far, based on my own experience it's no small amount of work. Very inspirational!  :)
“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
― C.S. Lewis

Offline Geep

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Re: Vassal Warmaster
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2015, 10:17:23 AM »
Thanks :)
Sprites are a lot of work- it's taken me ~1 year to finish the Empire! (it's one of those things where motivation comes and goes). I am very happy to have you helping out  ;D

There's a few things that need changing- like the movement controls for artillery still seem to have issues. When I tried to use the command radius function in-game on my Empire characters that also didn't work. These are both things I tried and tested offline with no problem, but maybe online adds issues?
I also intend to set all units to having the same fixed move distances for the same button- 1, 10 and maybe 15cm? Currently it's set so that units move at 1, half their full, and their full move- but this is messy with mixed brigades and I don't think really gives a huge benefit.
I'd also like to add another zoom layer, though have found zooming too much can cause crashes (probably very computer dependent).

Having a quick-reference rules sheet available for each unit is definitely a plan, and shouldn't be hard to do. I just need time to look into it. I know other mods, like BFG and X-wing can do it easily enough. I also intend to attach the living rulebook pdf to the game's help section, if possible.

I hadn't considered dice sounds- I'll think about it, depending on how easy it is to work into the drop-down menu. Thanks for the link!

Here are some probably complete Orcs


Originally I had them as 6 per rank, before I actually looked at my models. What do people think looks better? (A second rank of 6 would be added if I kept going along this line)


(I had to go with brown bases for the Orcs- green skin and green bases in 2D just don't work without very weird shading)
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 10:19:25 AM by Geep »

Offline Shapeshifter878

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Re: Vassal Warmaster
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2015, 09:11:54 AM »
It's a bit easier to spot the individual orcs with 5 in the ranks, so I'll vote for that one. Aren't orcs supposed to be larger than humans anyway?

I did some research on dice sounds and apparantly you have to use the dice as a game piece on the board, so maybe that will be something for the future.

After reading in the Vassal's designer guide I've entertained myself with adding movement sounds for the Empire Knights. I have all these wav-files from an old computer game called Warlords 3 that are just perfect for this with generic sounds for Infantry, Cavalry and various creatures like Eagles, Dragons and Ogres. Not overly necessary but cool  8)

I think it would be even better to have the relevant statistics for units pop up when you mouse over them. From what I've gathered so far it's possible to add text together with the close-up image of the unit.

Concerning the radius issue computer programs are a mystery sometimes and damn frustrating too.  Too bad it doesn' t work, because it's a nice feature. Maybe it could be some sort of syncing problem with your opponent? Do you both have the same version of the mod?

Edit: I did some experimenting with the unit statistics and came up with two ways:



When you move the mouse over it, the stats are displayed above the image.

Or, by using a Property Sheet, you can access the stats on the unit menu. You can also write in new values here.



By the way, about editing the mod. If I send you the edited files is it possible for you to copy any additions I make into your "original" file or how does it work?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 01:43:33 PM by Shapeshifter878 »
“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
― C.S. Lewis

Offline Geep

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Re: Vassal Warmaster
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2015, 03:18:03 PM »
I should be able to make dice as physical in-game objects, so that could have sound. I've seen other mods do it. I'll make them an option in addition to the current pull-down menu though.

Adding sound is well ahead of my current aim, but feel free to go for it- my only question is whether you'd need permission to use Warlord 3's sounds? I know the mod is already an unlicensed knock-off, but there's a difference between making this and actively stealing work. I'm pretty sure that both players don't need identical versions of everything though- so even if I don't think it's appropriate to distribute a version with the sounds you should still be able to have them work for you when playing.

The mouse-over stat idea is an interesting one- my only question is what size is it, and does it show even when zoomed in? (right now the mouse-over image won't show if the mouse-over image would be smaller than the unit actually appears on-board).
My thoughts had been to go with the property sheet option. I've seen other mods do more 'pretty' versions of this- I assume using image files. I'd like to do that (though there is an advantage to an editable property sheet as well- could be useful for campaigns, magic items, etc).

Anyway, other progress at 4x game size:

Orcs and Goblins


Black Orcs and Ogres (Ogres are from Shapeshifter, put onto a brown base, with slight darkening of the wood to make it stand out more. I really like these guys)


Wolf Riders, Boar Boys and Chariot


I went with making numbers the same as they are on actual Warmaster bases- 5 Orcs and 6 Goblins per rank (though I have versions of 6 Orcs and 7 Goblins). The occasional red balls are squigs- it's hard to give them features from above.

Edit:
Forgot to say- if you make a copy of the Warmaster mod and rename it (add a 'B' or something), send that to me and I can add things into the main mod version (if we work on versions of the same name and send them back and forth they'll overwrite each other, which will lead to madness)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 03:21:28 PM by Geep »

Offline Shapeshifter878

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Re: Vassal Warmaster
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2015, 10:39:47 AM »
The O & G stands look excellent(as always), they really manage to transfer the Warhammer/Warmaster spirit I think. The red blobs don't add much though and I'd probably get rid of them.

I've been working on some Marauders so they are coming up shortly, plus a stand of Dragon Riders.

Two more suggestions about the mod:

Shortcuts to the diceroll sub-menu:
1D6 - Ctrl+1
2D6 - Ctrl+2, etc up to Ctrl+0 and then another key for X dice.

Adding "Remove Stands" to the unit menu. The corresponding shortcuts could be similar to those for adding stands but with Ctrl added, like Ctrl+Shift+A: Remove Stand Left, Ctrl+Shift+D: Remove Stand Right , etc.

Adding the sound was merely a test and I'm sure there are loads of other free versions on the web should the need arise to have any.

Here is a better image of the unit stats that pops up when you hold the mouse over it. Like the unit image, the stats only show up when you have the table zoom between 10% and 275%.

“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
― C.S. Lewis

Offline Geep

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Re: Vassal Warmaster
« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2015, 01:22:00 PM »
I'm hoping some alternative stands will help the red squig blobs be more meaningful- like when I get around to making a goblin stand with squig hopper in it. They're also another place to show off army colours- red and black (checked where possible) for these Orcs and Goblins. That's something I hadn't thought of- I should probably add some red and black to those Ogres.
Maybe the squig idea won't work- we'll see. Maybe I should just tone their brightness down a bit?

Looking forward to the Marauders!

Good idea on the dice roll shortcut- have you looked at whether that is possible? I could maybe add it to a gaming piece? Is that what you're thinking of?

That mouse over idea does look appealing- the notes section for a piece always lets you state unusual unit facts anyway, so an editable sheet isn't needed.

I think a 'remove stands' menu may be awkward- currently the command is 'add/remove stands' because that's exactly what it does- the additional stands are just layers turned on or off by a certain key combination. I've found it works fairly well as is- Why would you prefer it to be a separate key combination to add stands and remove stands? (I'm guessing this is possible to do, but haven't actually looked- and if it is I don't think I can give it it's own menu? Feel free to check it out in the Layer controls)

As a sort-of note to self, I should add a counter to show units that have a permanent -1Ld penalty due to blunders. And make a 'Giant goes wild' control for the Giant.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 01:28:46 PM by Geep »

Offline Shapeshifter878

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Re: Vassal Warmaster
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2015, 04:24:05 PM »
The version I have of the mod just have "Add stands" in the unit menu, and I had some problems figuring out how to remove them. Having "Add/Remove stands" is probably a better alternative. I was mainly looking to make it more informative to the players.

Alright so here's the new stands:


Marauders




Dragon Riders



I meant the dice button on the toolbar. You can set a Hot Key in the properties window of each of the symbolic dice and it seemed to be working when I tried it.
“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
― C.S. Lewis

Offline Geep

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Re: Vassal Warmaster
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2015, 05:08:04 PM »
Great! Thanks for the work on the new sprites, and thanks for looking into the drop-down hotkey. I'll definitely add that.

Maybe I forgot to add the '/remove stands' bit? Or maybe that caused an error? I'll look into it again- either way, currently it's the same keys to add and remove the stands. If I do find I can change this it'll be a slow update. I'll need to change the name in every possible stand placement in every piece  :o  :'(

Another suggestion that came up from the last game I played (of which I still need to write something about) is to have 2 different dice menus- one which adds the dice totals, and one which orders them. Currently all pre-set dice numbers are added, but not ordered, and the XD6 option orders them but doesn't add. This is due to limits in Vassal's settings, but I can make more options that are ordered (handy for quickly totalling the hits scored, etc.).

The Orcs and Goblins are almost done now- pretty much just characters to go (15 character options!). I should be able to start refining the code soon.

Shapeshifter- I don't suppose you speak German at all? There was a mod made that claimed to have the ability to join pieces into a single unit (a Warhammer Fantasy mod- http://fightingchaos.com/vassal/battle/index.html). It also claimed to have a rotate setting, with an arbitrary rotation point and which measured the rotation distance. Unfortunately that mod is long inactive, the creators are silent and the forum that was linked to it is dead (and in German). I've tried looking into the code myself, but just don't get it. I feel a bit bad for asking (looking into this drove me a bit mad...), but if you're really keen on getting into the code understanding this stuff would help immeasurably. I don't actually expect anyone to go to this level of effort, but no harm in asking! One day I'll try it again myself (though don't even know if it's compatible with the modern Vassal engine anyway).

Offline Geep

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Re: Vassal Warmaster
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2015, 07:48:13 AM »
Trolls and Shapeshifter's Ogres tweaked a bit more (now with red and black). There's a version of the trolls without the red and black arm bands, and with some red back scales instead- the blurriness from enlarging them doesn't do them any favours though.


The real heavy-hitters: Giant and two Rock Lobber variants (one in the Warmaster style, one in my preferred Warhammer style)


Many thanks to Ehlijen with feedback- especially on the Giant. That guy took ages to do- strangely tricky given the relatively large area to work with. I tried my hand at making the crushed cart, but the colours of the human soldiers would have been distracting, so instead there's now a dead mule (thanks again to Ehlijen for that idea). I purposefully didn't use too many highlights on the cart, and muted it a bit with the base colour so that it's not too distracting. I think this is a useful idea- I did the same with the troll feet.
Shading on the trolls is clearly a little odd- their heads are much lighter than they should be, and their bodies darker, but I found this was needed to make body parts clear. Single colour models are tricky!

Just the characters to go now!

Quick update:
I've now added a rollable D6 as a game piece, have modified the wound markers to go from 0-9 (the zero is so that 2 beside each other can go from 1-99, in case such madness is needed). Movement has been standardised to 1, 5 and 10 for all. I've also added more flags, and updated all extensions to add all current pieces. There's also a dice rolling hotkey- Ctrl 1 to Ctrl - (for x).
I tried looking into one lot of dice that orders the roll and one lot that adds- oddly that's not easy. I'll have to look into the code of the dice buttons and try and work out how to make my own.
I think I can probably make the stand text 'add/remove', but am currently feeling overwhelmed at the amount of work that would need. I may do it in time- very slowly.

Shapeshifter- what is the function you used to get the pop-up stats like on that Empire stand? I see a few possible options, but haven't yet experimented to work out which one you've used.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 03:53:13 PM by Geep »

Offline Shapeshifter878

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Re: Vassal Warmaster
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2015, 12:29:01 PM »
You're welcome! I need something to focus my creative energies on at the moment and this suits me just fine.

Good work on the giant there. The muted feets creates a nice 3D effect. Interesting with the black and red patterns on them. Are you planning to use different colours for various Orc clans(if there are such things, I'm not that familiar with Warhammer lore) or is it just for personal taste?

I don't know what happened to /Remove, but I guess it will suffice for now to just have Add/Remove on the main stand menu and then keep the Add Stand Left, Right, etc on the sub-menu. Using the same keys for adding/removing works good, after having tested it a bit.

I've been thinking some more on the unit stats. How many do you think is necessary to include? I've done a test on a property sheet that have most relevant information. Ideally you don't want to look up the rules constantly.



The way I did the mouse-over stats was to edit a unit in the Empire extension(Halberders), adding a Dynamic Property, giving it the name Statistics and the stats for Attack, Hits, etc in the Value box. Then in the properties for Mouse-Stack Viewer in the main mod I put in $Statistics$ in the box for "Summary text above pieces". I don't know if that's the proper(or most efficient way) to do it but at least it worked :)

I actually learned German back in school so I'm a little familiar with it. I'm also a little familiar with Java so I'll take a look at that link you posted.

Good to hear that you've updated the mod. Do you have a download link for it?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 12:31:01 PM by Shapeshifter878 »
“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
― C.S. Lewis

Offline Geep

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Re: Vassal Warmaster
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2015, 02:45:23 AM »
Mod:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fn1pi6prp3ne1cw/Warmaster0.vmod?dl=0

Extensions:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0qhlbc8cq59ds0a/AAAItstghL0PTOhIsaS3oezIa?dl=0

The red/black is just a way to try and denote which unit is in which army- a similar idea to the 'flags' really. Basically, I'd like to make a copy of the current models with alternative colours, so that an Orc vs Orc fight won't get too confusing. For the Empire this was simple, thanks to the uniform. I've had to be a little more creative for the Orcs. Making the alternative colour scheme versions is one of the last things on my list- just a bit of future planning for now.

Adding '/remove' to the main menu should be easy enough- good idea, thanks  :)

I agree you don't want to look up rules constantly, though it's also good not to be bombarded by them all the time. Maybe two methods would be good- the mouse-over, giving a shorthand of the most basic stats (eg. Att: 3/1, Hit: 3, Arm: 6+), with a property sheet with more complete rules (as you last posted) accessible via the right-click menu?
It'll be more work, but shouldn't be too much.

I suspect your way of doing the mouse-over text is the correct one. Vassal can be odd in the way it does things.


Offline Shapeshifter878

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Re: Vassal Warmaster
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2015, 12:03:34 PM »
Thanks for the links. Do you mind putting the files in a zip-file next time? I'm prompted with a "Register-at-Dropbox" window for every file, which is a bit annoying, since I have to close that window and re-click them.

Nice to see the new units and implementations. Which is the shortcut for Roll X dice?

Yeah, I've been thinking about having both the mouse-over and property sheet too. It sounds like a good solution to me.

Here are some left-over sprites that I did some weeks ago. You can put them in the mod if you want to. They are alternative versions of the Harpies and Elven Bolt Thrower.


Harpies 1


Harpies 2


Bolt Thrower

Edit: I've put together the stats(both as mouse-over and property sheet) for the Chaos units that I've the done the sprites for. I've also increased the font size for the mouse-over text to 12 pts.

http://www.megafileupload.com/1PlN/WM_Chaos_Stats.zip
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 02:08:16 PM by Shapeshifter878 »
“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
― C.S. Lewis

Offline Geep

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Re: Vassal Warmaster
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2015, 08:09:21 AM »
Hi Shapeshifter,

Vassal files are already zip files (any vassal file is just a re-named .zip), but I'll see what I can do about grouping them into one download.

The dice-rolling shortcut is Ctrl 1-0 (for 1-10), and Ctrl - for 'X' dice. If that doesn't work I may be mis-remembering- it may be Shift 1-0. Either way, it's pretty simple.

Thanks for the sprites and chaos stuff- I'll take a look at how you've done it and will add the same to all other armies.

Offline Shapeshifter878

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Re: Vassal Warmaster
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2015, 09:50:13 AM »
Sounds great. Yeah, I noticed that the files are already compressed, so I meant grouping them into one package.

Some other shortcuts that would be nice are for Zoom In/Zoom Out. There's a Hotkey input window for it, so it's doable. Maybe the keyboard numpad '+' for Zoom In and '-' for Zoom out?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 09:52:16 AM by Shapeshifter878 »
“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
― C.S. Lewis