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Author Topic: BFG:R Planetary Defenses List  (Read 13901 times)

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Offline afterimagedan

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BFG:R Planetary Defenses List
« on: February 25, 2013, 04:50:47 AM »
Can you guys look over this document and see if I have missed anything? Also, the defenses from the xenos races; should we include those in here instead of their lists?

++Planetary Defences++
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 04:27:36 AM by afterimagedan »

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Planetary Defenses List
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2013, 12:19:52 PM »
Should the Ramiles be included here also?

I would probably put all of the races in one document but it can work either way.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Planetary Defenses List
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2013, 03:20:07 PM »
I do think the Ramilies should be in this list. Also, I think it is better to include the defenses from all races in this document because then you don't have to have documents with all those extra pages for the majority of the games you play where you don't need transports or defenses, even if the other documents refer to these defenses.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 03:24:38 PM by afterimagedan »

Offline horizon

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Re: BFG:R Planetary Defenses List
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2013, 07:30:33 PM »
I think space stations need a big overhaul. And once I had written an unpublished article on it.
Now it is lost. :(

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Planetary Defenses List
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2013, 07:48:21 PM »
I think space stations need a big overhaul. And once I had written an unpublished article on it.
Now it is lost. :(

Well you should find that sucker! I am interested to hear what you have to say about it.

Offline Plaxor

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Re: BFG:R Planetary Defenses List
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2013, 07:57:09 AM »
Horizon is right, I came across this during my work. Space stations in general are weak against WB due to their defence status. IMO most should have AV 6+. Also defences typically are underrepresented in games, so I thought that cheaper defences, or more points for them is more appealing.

An aside from this, the scenarios system is terribly broken. I was working on a solution towards the end of my work, based on using solid points values for each player for each game level.

From a basic standpoint, I planned for scenarios to work thusly (and possibly all regular games, comparable to WH40k [at least in 5th]).

1. Both players agree on a number of points to spend on their Battle level fleet.
2. Each player designs the following fleets:
        i. A Battle Fleet up to the number of points agreed by both players. This fleet must include a Fleet Commander (I don't remember exactly how I planned for characters to work in this)
       ii. A Raider Fleet comprising of 1/2 the points limit for their battle fleet.
      iii. A Planetary Defense List equaling 1/4 the battle fleet points
      iv. A Transport fleet equalling 1/4 the battle fleet points.

Note: Players will not necessarily use all fleet lists for their game. They must be able to provide the vessels for either core fleet along with their planetary defence and transport fleets simultaneously.

3. The players choose a mission (there were a number of possibilities of how to do this, and I'll list the two I liked best at the time)

Note: Missions were divided into three categories--Raids, Hybrid, and Battles. Raids are where both players use their smaller fleet list, Hybrids were where one used battle and the other raid, and battles of course had both players use their largest fleet.

Option A: Players roll dice to determine which mission is played.

1. They begin by rolling a D3 (or possibly 2D6 with increased likelyhood for raids, then battles).
2. They after determining the type, another dice is rolled for specific missions. (Players can possibly use a 'Re-roll' to have the specific mission type re-rolled)
3. Players then continue to mission specifics.

Option B: Players use cards and attack rating to determine scenario.

1. The players first begin with a stack of cards each representing one of the 12(?) standard scenarios.
2. Each player removes 1 card for each point of attack rating of their fleet. I.e a fleet with attack rating 2 could remove 2 cards. Players may choose not to remove any cards.
3. The cards are shuffled then one player draws a card randomly from those that remain.



Scenario set up:

1. Set up terrain as normal.
2. Players determine attacker and defender using an AR roll off.
3. Determine table edges.
4. Set up as mission dictates. note: players may be required to use their planetary defence force/transport fleet.

Victory:

This was a bit complex, but I imagined some sort of Victory Point system scaled according to the number of points of core fleet on the field. Probably 1 for every 250 points. Conceptually a convoy mission with 2 500 point fleets would require the defender to get 4 transports off the table for a Major Victory, 3 for a Minor victory 2 for a draw etc. Of course this was a bit guesswork.




Anyways food for thought. Scenarios are a big deal that were rarely used. If I do anymore work for BFG:R it would probably be a set of standard scenarios since they could be used without alternate rules and wouldn't take long to make.

Note: Transports should have points values, but I understand this may seem unsavory.

Offline Koshi

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Re: BFG:R Planetary Defenses List
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2013, 09:40:23 AM »
There are some issues about PD alright. I've played them not often altough we don't play planetary assault often. So I don't have much to say about them. Ok, they need a buff because at plays when I fielded them they never seem good except the defence monitor. It isn't that bad and I like the Idea about 2 Hits.

For Convoys I like to see cheaper and better escort carriers. They are overpriced and bad now. Never used them. Q-Ships are fine IMO, maybe a little bit cheaper - you are losing a transport after all. Armed Freighters are crap. I go so far to see them a free update to the normal transport. You're dealing transport capacity for weapons. You may include the fast clipper from Comp 2010.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Planetary Defenses List
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2013, 10:44:35 PM »
I am starting to think about a couple things:

1. It seems apparent that we should address the point values of planetary defenses.
2. Ships that are also considered transports (droppods, some old BFG:R tyranids) should have a price to them. Basically, instead of scenarios that allow you to take a certain amount of transports per 500pts, I think instead that it should provide a point amount and mandate these "transport" quality vessels pay for their upgrades. For example, old BFG:R has their escort drones as transports. They should have to pay for this in games where scenarios utilize this. If they have extra transport points, they can spend them on transports. This would only take putting point values on transports and changing the wording in the scenarios to offer points for attackers to buy transports instead of having a set amount of transport vessels per point. This would also fix the whacky heavy transport issue.
--I say this because I played a game recently where Dark Eldar were defending a recently taken planet from a Space Marine fleet. Having each capital ship in the SM fleet made it almost impossible for the Dark Eldar to win. The SM fleet need to be paying for their drop pod quality in those games.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Planetary Defenses List
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2013, 12:39:10 AM »
I dont know if giving them an additional price is nesscarry so much but having ships with a built in transport capacity or mechanic that allows them to perform as a transport count againstthe total transport capacity for thhe fleet seem reasonable.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Bessemer

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Re: BFG:R Planetary Defenses List
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2013, 01:57:41 AM »
The above link doesn't work! Go to Dan's site, that works.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 03:28:01 AM by Bessemer »
I refuse to be killed by something I've never heard of.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Planetary Defenses List
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2013, 04:36:10 AM »
I fixed the link. The problem is with the word "Defenses" because American English spells it "Defenses" and British English spells it "Defences."  I have changed it over to the British English version because that is how the document has it. Even as I type it now, defences has a red line under it (because I am in the U.S.).

Andrew, given that Imperial transports are pretty much a 15pt ship and that heavy transports are a WAY better option, I think we should either put point costs on them or make sure that each fleet's transports even out to about 15pts, which I don't think we can do, especially with Eldar. Having said that, I think we should be putting point values on them and having the scenarios give point costs towards transports.

Also, having a battle barge that counts as a transport in planetary assault missions is worth way more than 15pts. It is like old Necrons vs old Eldar: GG, go home Eldar player. Space Marines will be taking your planet. This needs to change.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 10:03:46 PM by afterimagedan »

Offline BaronIveagh

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Re: BFG:R Planetary Defenses List
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2013, 02:59:11 AM »
Something should really be done about fire ships too.  As things stand they're absolutely useless.
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Offline Tyberius

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Re: BFG:R Planetary Defenses List
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2013, 03:39:07 AM »
Something should really be done about fire ships too.  As things stand they're absolutely useless.
Yes, they should be at least faster (20 cm)

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Planetary Defenses List
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2013, 12:54:42 PM »
Wah O_o! Fire ships are far from useless. Just like the System ships or Defense moniters their strength is that you dont have to move them, just camp the objective and wait, they'll get their moment to shine and then die brilliantly.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline BaronIveagh

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Re: BFG:R Planetary Defenses List
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2013, 04:02:09 PM »
Wah O_o! Fire ships are far from useless. Just like the System ships or Defense moniters their strength is that you dont have to move them, just camp the objective and wait, they'll get their moment to shine and then die brilliantly.

Except that unlike sdf monitors, they have next to nothing by way of guns, armor, shields or HP.  Most people just shoot them dead long before they ever actually do anything, particularly if you camp the objective.   They're generally a waste of points.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 04:03:59 PM by BaronIveagh »
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