October 14, 2019, 12:52:13 PM

Author Topic: Reserve Shenanigans  (Read 3677 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Talos

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 542
Reserve Shenanigans
« on: October 24, 2012, 05:49:42 PM »
Not going to lie: reserve seems simple enough, but I'm still a bit perplexed.

So the basic rule of reserve is one ship for every three ships of the same type already in your fleet. So you can grab a battleship if you already have three, an escort if you already have three and so on and so forth...or is it?

Scenario one: I have three lunar class cruisers in my list. Can I take a dominion battlecruiser as a reserve vessel?

Scenario two: I have three dominator cruisers in my list. Can I take a avenger grand cruiser as a reserve vessel?

Okay it gets trickier:
Scenario three: I have two lunar class cruisers in my armageddon list. I then take a Mars Battlecruiser, and then take a dominion battlecruiser as reserve and then grab a retribution battleship. Legitimate or not?

Scenario Four: I have a dauntless light cruiser and two lunar cruiser on my list. I take two mars class battlecruisers, a overlord as reserve and then two emperor class battleships. Legitimate or not?

If you can answer all four, you clearly have no reservations about helping the community. (slinks away in shame after pun).

Offline AndrewChristlieb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1651
Re: Reserve Shenanigans
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2012, 05:57:41 PM »
Not going to lie: reserve seems simple enough, but I'm still a bit perplexed.

So the basic rule of reserve is one ship for every three ships of the same type already in your fleet. So you can grab a battleship if you already have three, an escort if you already have three and so on and so forth...or is it?

Scenario one: I have three lunar class cruisers in my list. Can I take a dominion battlecruiser as a reserve vessel?

Yup

Scenario two: I have three dominator cruisers in my list. Can I take a avenger grand cruiser as a reserve vessel?

Yup

Okay it gets trickier:
Scenario three: I have two lunar class cruisers in my armageddon list. I then take a Mars Battlecruiser, and then take a dominion battlecruiser as reserve and then grab a retribution battleship. Legitimate or not?

Yup

Scenario Four: I have a dauntless light cruiser and two lunar cruiser on my list. I take two mars class battlecruisers, a overlord as reserve and then two emperor class battleships. Legitimate or not?

No Dauntless would have to be reserved in also

If you can answer all four, you clearly have no reservations about helping the community. (slinks away in shame after pun).

? ok

I am assuming of course that all of these are making use of the Armageddon fleet list for its ability to take one CB for each CA With exception to scenario 2 wich would be using the Gothic list.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 06:05:14 PM by AndrewChristlieb »
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Talos

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 542
Re: Reserve Shenanigans
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2012, 09:27:10 PM »
If scenario four had an endeavour light cruiser instead of a dauntless would it be legal?

Alos questions about reserves="reservations"...*sighs*

Canada rated as world's funniest country with the most prestigious comedy festival in the world. Why am I not funny?

Sometimes I wonder if I was adopted ??? 

Offline AndrewChristlieb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1651
Re: Reserve Shenanigans
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2012, 10:44:14 PM »
Scenario Four: I have a dauntless light cruiser and two lunar cruiser on my list. I take two mars class battlecruisers, a overlord as reserve and then two emperor class battleships. Legitimate or not?

If you replace the Dauntless with an Endeavour then yes this would be legal.

Endeavour
Lunar
Lunar

This by itself allows you to field 3 battle cruisers in the Armageddon list and bring in one reserve cruiser and take one battleship

Overlord
Mars
Mars

Ok so blue is a reserve ship (taking the one allowed reserve slot) each of these also require a single cruiser to be fielded (taking the three allowed battlecruiser slots)

This also opens you to bring in one additional battleship.

Emperor
Emperor

These take up the two allowed battleship slots.

Its almost legal for a one off game too, if your friends will slip you 10 pts (I would, being easy like that) You can bring this as a 2k with a fleet admiral.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Talos

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 542
Re: Reserve Shenanigans
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2012, 11:25:42 PM »
I just wasn't sure if you could use reserve ships to qualify for battlecruiser/battleship requirements. Thank you very much, this really makes fleet lists a lot less restrictive in general.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1651
Re: Reserve Shenanigans
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2012, 12:39:04 AM »
Ya, so far as i can tell there is nothing prohibiting you using a reserve vessel for any requirements except other reserves. You cant for example in scenario 4 take another reserve cruiser because you only have 5 selected from the base list.

Another interesting question would be if i had say 9 cruisers from the Gothic sector list and used those to select three Dominions from the Bakka list could i then take a Jovian as reserves for the Dominions? All requirements would be met for the ships and the ruling about not taking reserves of reserves seems to only apply if your trying to use three ships that are not from the correct sector (Bakka in this case).
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 12:59:23 AM by AndrewChristlieb »
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Sigoroth

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1386
Re: Reserve Shenanigans
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2012, 06:42:21 AM »
Ya, so far as i can tell there is nothing prohibiting you using a reserve vessel for any requirements except other reserves. You cant for example in scenario 4 take another reserve cruiser because you only have 5 selected from the base list.

Another interesting question would be if i had say 9 cruisers from the Gothic sector list and used those to select three Dominions from the Bakka list could i then take a Jovian as reserves for the Dominions? All requirements would be met for the ships and the ruling about not taking reserves of reserves seems to only apply if your trying to use three ships that are not from the correct sector (Bakka in this case).

No. You can't reserve in a ship that is a reserve for another fleet. You can't reserve in any ship that isn't on your fleet list, you can only reserve in any ship that appears in another fleet list. If a ship only appears as a reserve on another fleet list then you can't include it.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1651
Re: Reserve Shenanigans
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2012, 12:46:01 PM »
Indeed thats where i would lean also, but it is hard to argue that when you are infact not selecting them as reserves for another fleet list but as reserves for the fleet list they come from :/.

As the reserves rules sit currently theyre a bit lax on cruisers and a bit tough on escorts, battleships are just silly. They should read something like for every 500 pts or part in your fleet you may take up to six escorts from any other fleet, for every thousand points or part you may take up to one cruiser, and for every 1500 or part you may take up to one battleship. Or something along those lines anyway. 
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Sigoroth

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1386
Re: Reserve Shenanigans
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2012, 03:21:16 PM »
Indeed thats where i would lean also, but it is hard to argue that when you are infact not selecting them as reserves for another fleet list but as reserves for the fleet list they come from :/.

I don't follow you. If you're using the Gothic sector list and want to reserve in 3 Dominions, you can (assuming you've got 9 Gothic sector cruisers of course). But when attempting to reserve in that Jovian, you can't because it's a reserve vessel from another fleet list. You're still using the Gothic sector fleet list.

Quote
As the reserves rules sit currently theyre a bit lax on cruisers and a bit tough on escorts, battleships are just silly. They should read something like for every 500 pts or part in your fleet you may take up to six escorts from any other fleet, for every thousand points or part you may take up to one cruiser, and for every 1500 or part you may take up to one battleship. Or something along those lines anyway.

I think the reserves rules are fine for cruisers, leave them as they are. For BBs, yes, something like your wording would be fine, but I'd remove the "or part". For escorts I'd simply allow up to 1 squadron of reserve escorts.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 03:25:41 PM by Sigoroth »

Offline Talos

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 542
Re: Reserve Shenanigans
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2012, 03:25:11 PM »
I agree that although they are ok for cruisers, I can't really think of a single build outside of tau that runs enough battleships at less than 2000pts+ games to reserve stuff. And I always though that unless you want to mix that escort into you current squadron you need at least 6 escorts just to field them in a tiny 2 squadron, when realistically as our other thread discussed they are generally best served in groups of 3/5.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1651
Re: Reserve Shenanigans
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2012, 12:28:08 AM »
Thanks Sig I see that now, makes the arguement a bit more clear cut :D. Most of the fleets dont really need the Reserve rules anyway but it would be nice if they actually worked for those that can make use of it.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline BaronIveagh

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 859
    • Dark Reign
Re: Reserve Shenanigans
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2013, 03:57:37 AM »
Depends on the fleet list. 

He's correct with the Gothic list.

What Sigoroth is forgetting is that some places do allow the Maelstrom Zone fleet lists from IA X, which means that yes, the Jovian (as well as the Cardinal class Heavy Cruiser from BFGM) CAN be taken, as those lists make reserves pointless as they allow 'any' IN cruiser/battlecruiser/Grand Cruiser. 
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 04:18:23 AM by BaronIveagh »
non nobis domine non nobis sed nomine tua da na glorium