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Offline Tyberius

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Some questions
« on: January 30, 2012, 05:34:35 AM »
In 2007 FAQ it says:

"Dark Eldar attack craft re-roll misses and enjoy any other benefits of equivalent Eldar attack craft"
according to this additionally to eldar benefits I get an extra DE benefit.

does it means that:

DE bombers may re-roll any dice when determining number of attacks AND re-roll missed attacks against armor?
DE fighters re-roll 4+ save to remain in play?
DE assault boats and impalers may re-roll 1's?   ???


In BFG rulebook Chaos fleet list it says:
"You may include up to one battleship in your fleet for every three cruisers or heavy cruisers"
and then it says:
"You may include up to one grand cruiser in your fleet for every three cruisers or heavy cruisers"

According to this there's no restriction between the two sentences, nowhere it says that it is cumulative and nowhere it says that I cannot take the grand cruiser if I take the battleship.

does it mean that I can include a battleship AND a grand cruiser for every three cruisers or heavy cruisers?    ???


thank you in advance






Offline horizon

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Re: Some questions
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2012, 07:09:44 AM »
Hi,

DE attack craft:
Bombers as Eldar (re-roll dice to determine number of attacks, nothing of re-roll vs armour).
Fighters: correct
Assault boats: nothing special iirc


Chaos:
this is allowed (best clarification):

Desolator (Battleship)
Repulsive (Grand Cruiser)
Styx (Heavy Cruiser)
Carnage (Cruiser)
Carnage (Cruiser)


cheers!

Offline Tyberius

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Re: Some questions
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2012, 08:41:12 AM »
thanks!!!

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Some questions
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2012, 10:56:40 PM »
In 2007 FAQ it says:

"Dark Eldar attack craft re-roll misses and enjoy any other benefits of equivalent Eldar attack craft"
according to this additionally to eldar benefits I get an extra DE benefit.

You've stressed the wrong word. The word to stress was other. In other words, DE ordnance function exactly as CE ordnance, except where noted otherwise (Leech torp special rules, for example).

Quote
does it means that:

DE bombers may re-roll any dice when determining number of attacks AND re-roll missed attacks against armor?
DE fighters re-roll 4+ save to remain in play?
DE assault boats and impalers may re-roll 1's?   ???

1. - They can only re-roll the attack dice, not the hit dice, just like Eldar.
2. - No.
3. - No.


Quote
In BFG rulebook Chaos fleet list it says:
"You may include up to one battleship in your fleet for every three cruisers or heavy cruisers"
and then it says:
"You may include up to one grand cruiser in your fleet for every three cruisers or heavy cruisers"

According to this there's no restriction between the two sentences, nowhere it says that it is cumulative and nowhere it says that I cannot take the grand cruiser if I take the battleship.

does it mean that I can include a battleship AND a grand cruiser for every three cruisers or heavy cruisers?    ???


thank you in advance

You can take both. So a single fleet could have 12 cruisers, 6 heavy cruisers, 6 grand cruisers and 6 battleships (as well as defences where appropriate and any number of escorts).

Offline horizon

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Re: Some questions
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2012, 04:09:25 AM »
You're sure on the fighters?

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Some questions
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2012, 01:50:47 PM »
This was actually clearer in the FAQ posted on gw's website: Dark Eldar bombers re-roll misses and enjoy any other benefits of Eldar bombers. At any rate fighters, assault boats, and impailers do not "miss" and therefore may not re-roll misses.

In 2007 FAQ it says:

"Dark Eldar attack craft re-roll misses and enjoy any other benefits of equivalent Eldar attack craft"
according to this additionally to eldar benefits I get an extra DE benefit.

does it means that:

DE bombers may re-roll any dice when determining number of attacks AND re-roll missed attacks against armor?
DE fighters re-roll 4+ save to remain in play?
DE assault boats and impalers may re-roll 1's?   ???

1: You may, as Eldar, re-roll the to hit dice, AND as Dark Eldar re-roll any missed damage dice.
2: DE fighters get one 4+save to remain in play, since this is not an attack that can miss you may not re-roll the result.
3: DE assault boats and impailers like all assault boats do not roll to hit, they roll a hit and run attack, on a result of 1 the attack fails not misses and therefore may not be re-rolled.

In the FAQ 2010 however it states:
Dark Eldar ordnance and attack craft enjoys all resilience and re-roll benefits Eldar ordnance does, and they behave in the same manner in all respects. Pg 25 faq2010

This removes the re-roll misses statement and clears everything up nicely.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 01:57:23 PM by AndrewChristlieb »
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Some questions
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2012, 10:33:13 PM »
You're sure on the fighters?

Yes of course. They get a 4+ save, just like Eldar, but they don't get to re-roll this save.

1: You may, as Eldar, re-roll the to hit dice, AND as Dark Eldar re-roll any missed damage dice.

This has never been the case. Dark Eldar do not have a special "re-roll hits" rule over and above what the Eldar enjoy. They re-roll missed hits just like the Eldar do, ie, with their torpedoes, and also enjoy the other Eldar special rules. Note the word 'other'. That means that re-rolling missed hits is not an additional rule on top of the Eldar rules, but one of the Eldar rules (and therefore could only possibly refer to their torpedo rules). This ruling was brought in due to many people asking if DE torps and leech torps counted as Eldar torps, and so got to re-roll hits. This was not clear in the first ruleset. Similarly DE fighters are resilient, DE bombers can re-roll the attack dice and all DE ordnance is hit by turrets on a 6+. In fact, the only difference between Eldar and Dark Eldar ordnance is the DE Leech torps, Impalers and slave-taking rules.

Offline Tyberius

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Re: Some questions
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2012, 10:46:55 PM »
Thanks everyone, I feel compelled to follow Sigoroth's acclaration cause is the most logical criteria, there's nothing about DE that justify their attack craft to be better than Eldar.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Some questions
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2012, 11:12:44 PM »
I agree that they should not have the re-roll for misses on bombers which was addressed in the faq2010 but sig you are quite mistaken about the ruling in the current legal faq.

FAQ 04
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_xHYdOJkJU4ZWRhZjlmOTAtYzBhZi00OTYzLWJiN2ItOGJiZjk1OGI0YmMw

FAQ 07 (most current)
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_xHYdOJkJU4M2MwOWUxMWYtMDU5OS00ZDdmLTlkNDUtYjdiYTBmOGVkYzM1
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 11:16:18 PM by AndrewChristlieb »
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline horizon

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Re: Some questions
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2012, 04:05:40 AM »
FAQ 2010 is current.
http://tinyurl.com/23nul8q

(As in no other FAQ is on GW website as well, thus we take what should be the FAQ, if we like it or not :) )

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Some questions
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2012, 10:55:20 PM »
I agree that they should not have the re-roll for misses on bombers which was addressed in the faq2010 but sig you are quite mistaken about the ruling in the current legal faq.

FAQ 04
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_xHYdOJkJU4ZWRhZjlmOTAtYzBhZi00OTYzLWJiN2ItOGJiZjk1OGI0YmMw

FAQ 07 (most current)
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_xHYdOJkJU4M2MwOWUxMWYtMDU5OS00ZDdmLTlkNDUtYjdiYTBmOGVkYzM1

DE bombers have never ever been able to re-roll misses. If you have been playing it that way then you've been playing it wrong. The 04 FAQ clarification is wrong, and the re-roll was meant to refer to the attack dice, not misses. The intention of every "clarification" was to say that "yes, DE stuff works just like Eldar stuff". As usual, GW "clarifications" are anything but clear. The 07 FAQ, which is not the most current as BH points out, does not intimate that DE Bombers can re-roll missed attacks. The 2010 FAQ, which is current, finally just equates DE ordnance with Eldar ordnance in plain speech.

Now, I'm not against the judicious use of the What the hell!? Were they on crack!? (WTHWTOC) rule when it comes to the 2010 FAQ. This is, of course, a thing to be discussed amongst your game group. This is not a case I would use that rule though.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Some questions
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2012, 04:37:15 AM »
I have a question... And this seemed a fitting place for it lol.

The bastion fleet lists represent battlefleets cadia, agripinaa, scarus, and corona. The ruling for veteran captains and the special leadership are very specifically for battlefleet cadia. Does this mean that battlefleets agripinaa, scarus, and corona all roll leadership as normal?

I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Some questions
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2012, 09:43:13 PM »
I have a question... And this seemed a fitting place for it lol.

The bastion fleet lists represent battlefleets cadia, agripinaa, scarus, and corona. The ruling for veteran captains and the special leadership are very specifically for battlefleet cadia. Does this mean that battlefleets agripinaa, scarus, and corona all roll leadership as normal?

Thankfully, yes. Otherwise the Bastion fleets would be almost unplayable. Unless you were trying to deliberately handicap yourself of course. Those veteran captains should cost no more than 15 pts, at the very outside. Less I would imagine.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Some questions
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2012, 11:04:37 PM »
25pts with a re-roll would be ideal, but yes I was wondering about that because of the fleet I'm working on the last thing I want to do is sink a 150 points into something that might only bring me to just below average ::). Thanks!
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Some questions
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2012, 03:24:59 AM »
25pts with a re-roll would be ideal, but yes I was wondering about that because of the fleet I'm working on the last thing I want to do is sink a 150 points into something that might only bring me to just below average ::). Thanks!

Well, the +1 Ld really only just mitigates the lost leadership (-0.53 Ld on average) and the fact that you have to form squadrons. If they didn't include a re-roll then they should simply cost 0 points. Their re-roll is not worth 25 pts however. Most re-rolls aren't. A couple of FC re-rolls are fairly critical, but their value quickly drops away the more you have (or the more reliable your leadership is; which really makes me wonder why Eldar re-rolls are so expensive and Ork re-rolls so cheap). Since these aren't FC re-rolls, but only local re-rolls and you're forced to buy them, 15 pts really is as much as they're worth.