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Author Topic: EXPERIMENTAL - Wyrd Gang  (Read 8337 times)

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Offline Ravendas

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Re: EXPERIMENTAL - Wyrd Gang
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2009, 02:38:33 PM »
Oh it does look like it was removed from his site for now. I'd email it to you, but I'm on vacation for another week and a half, nowhere near my home computer.

Well in my short campaign so far, the Wyrd player has only played 3 games so far. The first 2 were versus my gang, Scavvies, and the 3rd was a big 2v2, his Wyrds and my Scavvies versus two house gangs.

Just doing this from memory, but I think his gang started something like this:
(i don't remember most of their minor powers)
Leader - Fire wall
Pyro - Fire ball + Time stop running power
Telekenetic - Crush + lucky
Telepath - Mind Control
Telepath - Scare
Beastmaster - Typically ripperjacks + Can't be possessed (doesn't use powers anyway, so this is a dud minor)
Then 3 awakening wyrds with pistols and non-noteworthy minor powers

He had a pretty nice allotment of powers, he tried to keep it diverse since this is the first time we are using them. His most often used power is Fire Wall, which can completely change the game. With that he can cut my force in half, prevent me from shooting his models when they are out in the open or outnumbered, and he even used it offensively, making my people dive out of the way... while on narrow walkways 6" up.

Fireball hasn't been very effective at all. With 7ld, you have a 58% chance of using your powers. That's a 3.5+ to hit, halfway between 3+ and 4+ percentage wise. So 3.5+ chance to hit flamer effect using a small blast at 24" sounds pretty decent to start, right? Well, it would, but I always kept track of that character, and kept a few Scavvy zombies between him and my main group, with the zombies safely apart. Since it uses shooting targeting rules, you must target the closest models, which has always been a single zombie at the front. Frustrating to him, but he probably should have used that speedy time lapse power to get into a better position.

Crush... this power is the bane of my eye-stalked mutant. You think you are safe behind cover? No way, says crush. Pick someone in range, roll a ld test, then 2d6 vs their str+d6. Difference is straight up number of wounds they take. He has almost always beaten my roll, leading to many casualties. First game he crushed 3 scavvies in a row, 2nd game I learned to fear him and stay out of his way, and only lost one.

Mind control has been useful in failing. It's very hard to work completely, requiring the user to pass a ld test (58% for 7ld), and the target to fail a ld test (42% for 7ld), for about a 1/4 chance of working. When it has worked, he made one man charge into another for some hand to hand fight. As he put it "whoever wins, you lose". However when this power fails, it merely pins the model. The thing is, you use this on the enemy's turn, so that model doesn't stand up at the end of their turn, they lose 2 turns unless they have someone around to help them stand up. To prevent this power from destroying my low leadership scavvies, I tried to keep a Scalie with ld 9 between the mind controller and the rest of my group, with a scavvie behind him to help the Scaly stand back up. Oh, we also ruled that any wounds caused by a mind controlled model is given to the mind controller for experience, since otherwise this model would never actually gain any experience, and it makes sense that his mind is in the person's body, so it is basically him fighting by proxy.

Scare is the bane of low leadership groups, like mine. Pass a leadership test, and the closest model within 24" (no los required, same for mind control) automatically breaks and flees. He would use that every turn, safely squirreled away in some building, and reduce one of my scavvies to a blubbering mess. They would take a long time to recover as well, with their starting ld of 6. Luckily this model got possessed the 2nd game, and burnt up immediately, leaving nothing but the scent of brimstone. I'd say scare is one of the better powers, but it doesn't give you any experience, so that character will be massively useful, and boring at the same time.

Ahhh, the beastmaster and his 3 ripperjacks the first game. I underestimated them, and he rolled extremely lucky for them. They ate the faces of 3 scavvies, a zombie and a scaly by the time the game ended. They are fierce, and if they manage to jump onto your face, won't be coming off without help from a friend, requiring even more manpower to deal with them. Shoot these asap before they eat your face. Luckily for me, in the 2nd game the beastmaster went down from a zombie bite, then rolled a 1 on the zombie sickness test, turning into a zombie himself! He hasn't repurchased his beastmaster, but he is saving up. They are really important. I'd say if you cheesed this gang and just went mostly beastmaster, it would be extremely difficult to beat.

Overall, given their costs and their chances of their powers backfiring and killing them, this is a pretty balanced group. We've only had 3 games though, mostly against my odd massive gang, so we haven't seen a straight up game vs a house gang yet to really test it out. Their problem is that since they are expensive, and an outlaw gang with unsteady income, they will be a small gang. Losses are pretty harsh as well, and even if you make a ton of money one game, you are still limited to buying one Wyrd each game, as they are difficult to comeby. I believe his gang is now down to 7 models, making each of his characters a lonely powerhouse. Wyrds can be played defensively, due to their telepath powers not requiring any LOS. You can just take up nice comfortable positions, and use the telepath powers on the enemy until they get frustrated and rush towards you. This gang also has tons of options, which are terribly random so it's hard to start this gang with any idea of a strategy until their powers are determined.

Oh, my last bit, their income will mostly go to the purchase of more members, since equipment is mostly lost on them. Their powers are their weapons, so you can save a lot on weapons. Just keep the awakenings armed with pistols, and your wyrds with powers that work on the enemy turn with rifles, and you are good to go. Even rare trade rolls aren't terribly useful for them.

Offline Aodhan

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Re: EXPERIMENTAL - Wyrd Gang
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2009, 12:35:41 PM »
Wow! Thanks for taking the time to write such a comprehensive review Ravendas! Much appreciated.

Iíll keep an eye on Antís webpage. If however he doesnít upload the Wyrd gang list would it be possible for you to e-mail me a copy when you return from your holidays?

I had plans for a mixture of different Wyrds, so similar in many respects to your friends gang. I also envisaged Awakenings with pistols acting as meatshields for the Wyrds & Leader. I like the fact that from your experiences so far they appear to be balanced overall. High cost and perils of the warp offset by potentially high damage output (as long as you donít roll duff powers). I have a few more questions: 

(1) With regards to beastmasters would you suggest that a limit to their number per gang or a limit per total gang members is required? E.g. 2 per gang or 1 per 5 other members?

(2) Would you recommend limiting the gang to a maximum size? Or do you find the perils of the warp, high points cost etc. sufficient to keep Wyrd gang numbers sufficiently balanced.

(3) Has your friend made use of the special weapon options (Autoguns, Lasguns etc.) that are available for Wyrds? Or has he spent his creds on hiring more Wyrds?

(4) How would you rank the various Wyrd types? Obviously beastmasters if abused are overpowered, but on individual merit have you found one class under- or overpowered compared to the others? Would you recommend buffing or nerfing any particular class or altering some of their major powers?

(5) Would you suggest any other alterations to the gang list as it stands?
Thanks once again for the review. It was incredibly useful and has made me even more determined to introduce a Wyrd gang to my gaming group! 

Offline Ravendas

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Re: EXPERIMENTAL - Wyrd Gang
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2009, 02:36:18 PM »
(1) With regards to beastmasters would you suggest that a limit to their number per gang or a limit per total gang members is required? E.g. 2 per gang or 1 per 5 other members?

(2) Would you recommend limiting the gang to a maximum size? Or do you find the perils of the warp, high points cost etc. sufficient to keep Wyrd gang numbers sufficiently balanced.

(3) Has your friend made use of the special weapon options (Autoguns, Lasguns etc.) that are available for Wyrds? Or has he spent his creds on hiring more Wyrds?

(4) How would you rank the various Wyrd types? Obviously beastmasters if abused are overpowered, but on individual merit have you found one class under- or overpowered compared to the others? Would you recommend buffing or nerfing any particular class or altering some of their major powers?

(5) Would you suggest any other alterations to the gang list as it stands?

1: If I was to make a rule, I'd say "You cannot have more than 1/3 of your gang from any one Wyrd type. This represents the complete randomness of warp powers, and the difficulty in finding others of their kind. If an awakening raises one type of wyrd above this limit, then you cannot purchase any more Wyrds of that type until they are again below the limit allowed". This makes sense, since a Wyrd gang should be a hodgepodge, since when finding other Wyrd allies, they are so few and far between they wouldn't be picky. However it still allows people to take more of one kind than statistics states, just to allow them more flexibility in their gang.

2: I wouldn't introduce a max size cap, just because they have a cap of hiring one wyrd a game. If they get devastated in a game or two, either from casualties or perils of the warp, they really suffer because they have to slowly build back up, and hope that they don't get even weaker in the process. I don't see them becoming a large horde gang, just because of this 1 per game bit, and the fact that their models are expensive and they are outlaws.

3: He gave everyone a gun of some kind, because not everyone's powers are useful all the time, and sometimes you just need to drop someone. Beastmasters definitely need a weapon of some kind, because they only have a minor power to work from. If my friend didn't take any weapons, he would only have had 3 or 4 models capable of dealing wounds at the start: his fireballer, crusher, mindcontroller and beastmaster's pets.

4: Beastmasters: Strong if they get lots of animals in a game, and the opponent ignores them. That's what happened to me, I didn't realize what a terror ripperjacks could be. However later on in a campaign, when people are more adept at killing, the animals won't make quite a big difference.
Pyromaniacs: Firewall is the best power here, with molten man coming in 2nd for me. The huge tactical advantage of the first, and the armor save and hth terror of the 2nd makes these great. The rest are variations of shooting, several being quite short range, which is okay but not terribly exciting.
Telepaths: Really great, just because none of these powers require LOS. These models will be hiding 95% of the game, using their powers from afar. Terrify autobreaks an enemy if you pass your ld test, which is really great. Mind control is difficult to get off, but can wreak havoc if it does work. Mental assault could literally create a 24" round nogo zone for a low leadership gang. Hallucination isn't too bad, if a bit random. The great thing is that hallucination power skips the toughness checks for the models, and just goes straight to the 'what happens' table. Mental strength is of limited usefulness to wyrds, just because wyrds don't depend on ws and bs as much as other gangs, and increasing one models stats is pretty small in scope. Best use is probably making him give himself toughness, bringing him up to 5-7 toughness, becoming an awesome bullet shield.
Telekinetics: Assail: Pretty bad, useful if you use lots of high terrain only. Hailstorm: Really random d6str 1-3 shot autohitting 'gun' at up to 24 inches in range. Decent, but not awesome. Crush: My bane. 24" range, autohitting, high chance of wounding power that ignores toughness... this power is great. Forcefield: Never seen it in use, but I'd honestly just pour fire onto someone that has it, just to cause a perils of the warp check or two as it activates over and over. This model becomes a bodyguard for someone with a better power. Displacement: Average length teleported is 10-11", goes through barriers, that's all pretty great. But Wyrds rarely have anywhere they need to be fast, so I'd say this is very situationally useful, but typically soso. Fists of Fury: Would be good if the wyrd that had this had any kind of backup in hand to hand. Perhaps he could team up with the beastmaster pets or the new awakenings, but solo he would still get shot up before he made it into hand to hand.

That was longer than I originally thought... Basically, I'd say no power sets are weak, just some power sets have weak/situational powers. I wouldn't change anything.

5. I don't have the pdf on me at hand, but I remember that the leader has 3T, whereas a normal Wyrd has 4. That has to be an oversight, he should have 4T as well. Besides that, I'm a fan of this ruleset so far, nothing glaring has come up yet.

Offline SharkForce

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Re: EXPERIMENTAL - Wyrd Gang
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2009, 12:47:07 AM »
Hi guys.

I stumbled across the Wyrd Gang list the other day. Thought it looked great and then did a search for feedback on whether or not it's balanced and that's how I ended up here.

I've tried to downloaded the copy of the Wyrd Gang that Ant posted but I can't access it and keep getting a 404 error message. Would it be possible to obtain a copy of this?

i get a bunch of gibberish. well, not quite. i get what appears to be all of the instructions to the browser on how to display the site, which comes out *looking* like gibberish. on the upside, i also get the text. i'll do my best to transcribe for you and message it.

(actually, i get that result for every article on his page... not sure why...)

Offline Aodhan

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Re: EXPERIMENTAL - Wyrd Gang
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2009, 08:33:18 AM »
Hey thanks Shark Force! Much appreciated.

I also e-mailed Ant & he sent the me list through a word .doc. Looks very good. I'm gonna show my gaming group today and get play testing asap.