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Author Topic: If you could make a Chaos ship legal, which one(s) would it be?  (Read 89789 times)

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Offline Valhallan

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Re: If you could make a Chaos ship legal, which one(s) would it be?
« Reply #465 on: February 13, 2011, 08:16:06 AM »
yeah in this sense plax is right. they're not slaughterers, but like nate has said, if you dont like a ship you don't have to use it...

can't believe i'm going to the story argument, but it totally makes sense.

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: If you could make a Chaos ship legal, which one(s) would it be?
« Reply #466 on: February 13, 2011, 12:27:12 PM »
Well, we all know the Warp is a special land of magic and fairies... where ships simply come into being.

On a more serious note, who really cares if there is a chaos cl. It would be crap compared to the slaughter, and people who want them so desperately can quit whining.

It might be crap compared to the Slaughter but how about if it is compared to the Dauntless?

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: If you could make a Chaos ship legal, which one(s) would it be?
« Reply #467 on: February 13, 2011, 12:29:45 PM »
Because fluff says about two centuries have elapsed in the Eye, approx, while ten thousand years have rolled by in the materium.  Which means that the Planet Killer was actually built much more swiftly then most battleships.

Is there a problem with a battleship being built faster than most battleships? You have some pretty unforgivable and ruthless masters in the Eye who would accept no reason for any delays and would most likely just kill the messenger as well as those responsible for the delay and whose minions would push the slaves until their hands are bare to the bones already, literally and figuratively and still demand more performance out of the slaves and get it.You have traitor AM which are still in their prime and still have the knowledge to build ships efficiently and chaos beings and powers which can aid them further. The AM also probably have their equipment to build the ships that is better technology wise than the ones the non-traitor AMs have. I'm not going to be surprised if the PK is built way before record time.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 12:33:26 PM by Admiral_d_Artagnan »

Offline BaronIveagh

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Re: If you could make a Chaos ship legal, which one(s) would it be?
« Reply #468 on: February 14, 2011, 12:54:59 AM »
Because fluff says about two centuries have elapsed in the Eye, approx, while ten thousand years have rolled by in the materium.  Which means that the Planet Killer was actually built much more swiftly then most battleships.

Is there a problem with a battleship being built faster than most battleships? You have some pretty unforgivable and ruthless masters in the Eye who would accept no reason for any delays and would most likely just kill the messenger as well as those responsible for the delay and whose minions would push the slaves until their hands are bare to the bones already, literally and figuratively and still demand more performance out of the slaves and get it.You have traitor AM which are still in their prime and still have the knowledge to build ships efficiently and chaos beings and powers which can aid them further. The AM also probably have their equipment to build the ships that is better technology wise than the ones the non-traitor AMs have. I'm not going to be surprised if the PK is built way before record time.

That wasn't the point: It was that you can't build one of the largest, most powerful ships ever in record time for a ship of it's class AND simultaneously roll out dozens of cruisers you had to reverse engineer.  While chaos is badassed,it's not without limits.  Otherwise it would have won already. 
non nobis domine non nobis sed nomine tua da na glorium

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: If you could make a Chaos ship legal, which one(s) would it be?
« Reply #469 on: February 14, 2011, 01:39:43 AM »
That wasn't the point: It was that you can't build one of the largest, most powerful ships ever in record time for a ship of it's class AND simultaneously roll out dozens of cruisers you had to reverse engineer.  While chaos is badassed,it's not without limits.  Otherwise it would have won already. 

And why not? Do you know the construction details inside the Eye? 2 centuries is a lot of years assuming that the time passed in the Eye is true. Aside from which, while I think some ships might have been reverse engineered, who's to say some of the actual engineers involved in the Scartix Coil engine and Acheron class development did not turn traitor? At which point, reverse engineering need not be done because they would have firsthand knowledge. You can have many fluff reasons to justify how one can roll out the PK as well as a couple of Acherons and Slaughters.

Offline BaronIveagh

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Re: If you could make a Chaos ship legal, which one(s) would it be?
« Reply #470 on: February 14, 2011, 07:19:04 PM »

And why not? Do you know the construction details inside the Eye? 2 centuries is a lot of years assuming that the time passed in the Eye is true. Aside from which, while I think some ships might have been reverse engineered, who's to say some of the actual engineers involved in the Scartix Coil engine and Acheron class development did not turn traitor? At which point, reverse engineering need not be done because they would have firsthand knowledge. You can have many fluff reasons to justify how one can roll out the PK as well as a couple of Acherons and Slaughters.

Again, because resources are not available.  Chaos marines complain that they don't have access to basic supplies and equipment maintenance.  A great deal of the raiding that goes on is to seize basic materials. 

To make a comparison: if you can't keep up with demand for bullets and small arms, you're not going to have the resources necessary for large scale warship construction.  Squeezing out one PK and two or three of each of the other classes is possible, but frankly it's a better use of resources to maintain and upgun the (if the description of Horus' fleet in some of the HH books is correct) hundreds of CL's they would have had from the Great Crusade, never mind the ones that have joined since. 
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Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: If you could make a Chaos ship legal, which one(s) would it be?
« Reply #471 on: February 14, 2011, 09:39:23 PM »
Again, because resources are not available.  Chaos marines complain that they don't have access to basic supplies and equipment maintenance.  A great deal of the raiding that goes on is to seize basic materials. 

To make a comparison: if you can't keep up with demand for bullets and small arms, you're not going to have the resources necessary for large scale warship construction.  Squeezing out one PK and two or three of each of the other classes is possible, but frankly it's a better use of resources to maintain and upgun the (if the description of Horus' fleet in some of the HH books is correct) hundreds of CL's they would have had from the Great Crusade, never mind the ones that have joined since. 

But the fact is, Acherons, note the "s", have been built as well as the PK. If the PK can be built and that one according to you which I agree with, eats up a lot of resource, that means they do have the resources. I've never seen much fluff that Chaos does not have access to basic supplies and equipment maintenance. They've had 13 Black Crusades which I assume would eat up a lot of material per Crusade. While they have not really won, that's a lot of Crusades in which they have spent bullets and small arms.

Offline BaronIveagh

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Re: If you could make a Chaos ship legal, which one(s) would it be?
« Reply #472 on: February 14, 2011, 11:19:51 PM »
Again, because resources are not available.  Chaos marines complain that they don't have access to basic supplies and equipment maintenance.  A great deal of the raiding that goes on is to seize basic materials. 

To make a comparison: if you can't keep up with demand for bullets and small arms, you're not going to have the resources necessary for large scale warship construction.  Squeezing out one PK and two or three of each of the other classes is possible, but frankly it's a better use of resources to maintain and upgun the (if the description of Horus' fleet in some of the HH books is correct) hundreds of CL's they would have had from the Great Crusade, never mind the ones that have joined since. 

But the fact is, Acherons, note the "s", have been built as well as the PK. If the PK can be built and that one according to you which I agree with, eats up a lot of resource, that means they do have the resources. I've never seen much fluff that Chaos does not have access to basic supplies and equipment maintenance. They've had 13 Black Crusades which I assume would eat up a lot of material per Crusade. While they have not really won, that's a lot of Crusades in which they have spent bullets and small arms.

... Almost all of it I've read has them scavenging, particularly power armor components and weapons.  The Night Lords novels have been the most blatant (and vocal in their complaints) but in quite a few of the others they do.  and if they didn't, why do so many chaos minis and images feature them in parts of post heresy armor and equipment? 
non nobis domine non nobis sed nomine tua da na glorium

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: If you could make a Chaos ship legal, which one(s) would it be?
« Reply #473 on: February 15, 2011, 12:58:09 AM »
Scavenging works whether one has ample bullets or not. Or would you prefer to just move around out in the open without any armor or weapon in a warzone?

Offline Zhukov

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Re: If you could make a Chaos ship legal, which one(s) would it be?
« Reply #474 on: February 15, 2011, 06:53:48 PM »
Um, does all this about Slaughters and Scartix coils and "how come I can't have Chaos CL's?" mean the Chaos list is good to go?


Does anyone feel like some of these battleships, especially with the upgrades for each god, make the Chaos fleets... broken? With the exception of the PK and the Fortress, the Chaos BB's have been individually weak compared to Imperial BB's and this was on purpose due to the ideology of the fleets. The Imperium is supposed to have a top down approach where the larger the vessel, the more prominent the role in the fleet and the more powerful it is whereas in the Chaos fleet, the opposite holds true. The Chaos fleets are supposed to get the lion's share of it's firepower from the Cruiser and maybe battlecruiser levels. Does anyone else feel this way? I'm obviously talking from the pure "gothic theory" standpoint at the moment but it was something that just kinda dawned on me.

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