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Author Topic: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)  (Read 9033 times)

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Offline Zelnik

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2010, 02:25:04 PM »
A lot. it's not like the table is of infinite size. On a 6x4, there is only so far you can go before the imperial phalanx corners you on one side of the table.

Another thing i would like to point out is that it seems like your trying to make IN ships be strong enough to function independently.  The problem is, they simply were not designed to do this, most IN ships were meant to function in a squadron of 2 in order to be effective. From what i have been able to determine, the only IN ship that functions well on it's own is the Armageddon.

I will maintain my point, try the 2x overlord list I made.  You may be surprised at how powerful it is against just about any opponent. I have taken it up against Chaos, Diasporex, Orks, Nids, eldar, tau and necrons and it always did a great job (while i did not always WIN, the enemy never left the field in one piece)

here is the basic tactic for the fleet.

Keep everything in a squad of two, aside from the gothic, which acts as a 'wild card'.  keep the lunars together, keep the dictators together, keep the overlords together, base-to-base with their squad mates.  Deploy the overlords about 30cm apart from the rest of the fleet, to give the impression of splitting forces.  

While your moving towards the enemy launch bomber (or fighter squadrons if necessary), and torpedo attacks.  While your standard cruisers engage the enemy, the Overlords should be moving around the side to flank the opponent, constantly firing their weapons (typically using batteries to knock down shields, lances to chip off hits).  their extreme range will keep them (reasonably) safe.  another, more risky tactic is to turn parallel with the table, and have them send their broadsides directly into the oncoming enemy ships.

If the enemies go for the overlords in large numbers, turn them in towards the center of the table, launch torpedo's and bring your fleet around to support, locking the enemy in a pincer attack of torpedo's and death.

Against eldar, keep the Overlords in the center of the fleet, moving the standard cuisers out first to form a perimeter around the overlords, giving them some protection as they fire at long range.  if the enemy tries to attack the perimeter, they suffer from the overlords attacks, if they go after the overlords, they suffer from the perimeter's attacks.  Use carriers as torpedo and bomber defense.  

Against necrons, keep the Gothic close to the overlords, and AIM FOR THE TOMBSHIP! (shocker i know). bombers should be attacking scythes and shrowds. (yes the scythe has three turrets, but it's better then throwing them at a battleship or escorts.)

Against Nids, focus your fire on the hive ships while your torpedos and bombers attack the escort craft (especially those thrice damned krakens) IF one of your cruisers is boarded, don't be afraid to 'push the button' for a chance to cause a lot of pain to their ships before you open fire with the rest.  

Against tau, all of your carriers should be focused on CAP and torpedo interception, move the fleet in as a wedge to break through the Tau phalanx and get behind their ships do not split your forces or you will find the enemy focusing on whichever side is more vulnerable (aka, the side with fewer carriers!), once you force them into a close brawl, the Tau suffer.  Keep the overlords at a distance shooting at targets of opportunity, and aim for their big carriers. Ramming, boarding and close range combat are your best friends.


« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 02:44:23 PM by Zelnik »

Offline horizon

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2010, 02:30:10 PM »
It's not like Eldar stays cornered. Plus maintaining the phalanx, even with 1500pts and 2 long ranged ships &  2 carriers it will be a hard job to do.

Offline Zelnik

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2010, 02:45:24 PM »
Horizon, try it before you bash it.. And if you want to get out of the wall, the eldar have to cross through the fleet of imperial ships, giving them an opportunity to fire.

Offline horizon

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2010, 02:55:13 PM »
As said, battleplans are always nice in theory and at times you will follow them but be prepared for the canny opponent who just does not play along your plans. ;)

Versus the Eldar your setup is given. But what about this:

Eldar outmoves/turns the IN, you will agree. They come from one side, perhaps with celestial phenomena as aid. They get to 30cm and fire at your abeam cruiser(s) (perimeter). Gunnery ships doing this. Then they move away at least 20cm. Creating a distance of 50cm to your perimeter and 80cm to your Overlord. Now you must first move forward, you cannot get them.

Eldar torps will be fired pointing at your prows. Yes 6+ armour, but with their re-roll you might see hits.

A lot of this sun - celestial phenomena dependant. But that's random.



Tau, depends on Tau fleet. The 3x Explorer, 2x Hero, 9x Orca, 3x Defender will phalanx and let you come.



Also: when not being shotgunned 7 fighters will nullify your torpedoes.

Offline Zelnik

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2010, 09:40:54 PM »
One VERY important point I need to state is, in the upcoming 2010 faq, nova cannon blasts ignore holofields, giving you a free opportunity to damage ships or force them to brace.  The IN just got a little tougher ;)

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2010, 10:37:50 PM »
Nope. They reverted the NC rules against holofields back to the old rule. See version 3.2 of the FAQ. Even then all the Eldar have to do is maintain the 15 cm separation and it'll be very hard to tag more than 2 Eldar with the template.

Offline Vaaish

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2010, 12:04:19 AM »
as teh admiral said, that got reverted. I'm hoping that it isn't too late to see about it returning though.
-Vaaish

Offline Zelnik

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2010, 08:13:11 AM »
ahbugger.

Offline horizon

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2010, 11:55:07 AM »
Oh, how do you handle the following blasphemy:

Scenario: Raiders:
First turn:
Eldar move on table
Shoot one target to oblivion
Move off in ordnance phase
Battle Won on VPS for Eldar.

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2010, 02:16:26 PM »
Oh, how do you handle the following blasphemy:

Scenario: Raiders:
First turn:
Eldar move on table
Shoot one target to oblivion
Move off in ordnance phase
Battle Won on VPS for Eldar.

Yeah, I did a slightly less cheesy version of this (slightly) to my Chaos opponent. I was out to prove a point that using the rules as written regarding battlezone selection and victory points Eldar were unbeatable. I had 2 turns of shooting at him, crippled a couple of his ships and destroyed an escort squadron. He was finally starting to get ordnance through my screen; he attacked one of my escorts with an a-boat, missed and left a BM in contact. It was at this point that I just arrogantly disengaged. As luck would have it I did lose that one escort to the BM (I simply forgot to brace). I could have fought on and bloodied his fleet very considerably before they were in a position to retaliate. I would simply had to have weathered some more AC. As it was I could have spent another turn shooting at his ships and then flown off the edge of the board in the ordnance phase to disengage instead of disengaging in the movement phase . So I ended up with like 300 VPs to his none. Win.  :'(

Note: if he had've tried to sulk off in a corner and overwhelm me with AC he'd have failed. I'd have been able to reach a closer asteroid field and corner him. Also, with the longer distance and me sending out fighters to each turn it'd have taken like a year from that far away.