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Author Topic: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)  (Read 9023 times)

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Offline Zelnik

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Okay, so your buddy just got himself a corsair fleet. You play IN, and your convinced that your screwed up one end and down the other, yes? Well.. No your not! the fights are NOT going to be pretty, but you CAN win, and if your lucky, you can crush him before the fight has even begun. I will put foreword some things that may (or may not) save you.

Lets begin with an overview of the Eldar's weaknesses.

Obviously, 4+ armor.  No real shock there.  Also, the 4+ to crit their cruisers is painful to say the least.

Delicate cruisers.. their standard cruiser has 6 hits, their light has 4.  all you need to make their ships FAR less dangerous is to bonk 'em 2 or 3 times.

No protection against explosions. If you blow up a ship near their fleet.. they don't get the benefit of holofields. If you have a ship REALLY close to theirs... maybe you shouldn't BFI for the chance of a plasma drive, or a game changing warp implosion. 

Movement determined by table facing.  You can use this to your advantage.  I will explain later. 

Escort heavy fleet..

No turrets!


Now lets talk about imperial navy strengths.

Tough ships, you have 6+ prows, and 5+ armor, and you need 6's to crit. after this game, you will probably be happy for it.

Lots of choices. Eldar get no real selection when it comes to upgrades for their fleet.

Outnumbering the enemy. Your ships are cheaper!

RANGE. All of your battlecruisers, and one of your standard cruisers have better range then the entire eldar fleet (Sans the void stalker, we will talk about that later). 

Ordnance.  They have two carrier craft, and they are extremely expensive. yours are cheaper, and can knock out the dreaded bomber and torpedo wings without fear. you have torpedo's galore as well.



Okay, now lets talk about the eldar strengths, and how to overcome them.

Overconfidence. eldar players can suffer this when they have fought a lot of inexperienced players. the loss of their key ship can result in the disruption of their entire battle plan.

Holofields.  Ahh the dreaded "terminator" 2 up save. There are two ways for you to overcome this. 1, bring batteries to the fight (and lots of them), 2. force them to roll AS MANY TIMES AS POSSIBLE! remember, every time they roll for holofields, blast markers are generated, making the terrain extremely dangerous for them.  Also, they only have to fail 3 times to cripple a cruiser.  Also: Holofields do NOT save against exploding ships! If you down one of his cruisers, and any other eldar ship is nearby (even one escort) BLOW IT SKY HIGH! force brace for impacts or even destroy another ship or two! If you have a ship surrounded by eldar attackers about to get it's face pushed in, LET IT! if it explodes, you could END THE GAME right there! A lot of eldar rush in for that extra few dice from being within 15cm, make them pay for it.

Ordnance. Everyone fears the bombers and torpedos.. and they should! here are the ways to overcome it! CAP! yes, combat air patrol on your ships. even if it's just one fighter on the base, it renders at least one torpedo strike useless, and allows you to plan ahead for the incoming bombers.  If he has to waste fighters or shooting to knock out your CAP, all the better. 

Movement.  Eldar movement is entirely dependent on the sun.  Yes, they get two moves, but this means that you can predict where they go!  If you form a wall of cruisers and herd them into a corner, the only direction they CAN move is through the line, giving you a chance to pound the tar out of them.   Push them to one side of the table, use your defenses to your advantage, and they will have NOWHERE to go.


Okay, now lets talk about the imperial navy's weaknesses, and overcoming them.

Speed. Yes, IN is slow. very slow. depressingly slow.  Not as slow as orks, but slow.  How do you overcome this? all ahead full! if you have a squadron of ships, and JUST the right opportunity,  an AAF can land your ships right in the middle of the enemy fleet, or with a prime firing arc on a vital enemy ship. Even at half strength, a pair of lunars will give you six batteries and two lances, plus ALL of your torpedos.  all you need to do is hit once or twice to give them a really hard time, or even force a brace for impact.

Ordnance. your fighters are not resilient, your bombers are not skilled... but THEY don't have turrets! make them waste ordnance or firepower dealing with unending waves of bombers! If you take the mars, take it's upgrade to it's batteries... It makes it an extremely deadly foe against the eldar! IF your bombers hit, there is NO surpression, and you hit on a 4+. Yes, they get holofields, but the more you force them to roll, the more likely they will roll a 1... and just imagine all those marvelous blast markers.

Range. A lot of your ships only have 30cm range.  This means getting dangerously close to the enemy. I don't support stacking of fleets, but I would never build a fleet that didn't have SOMETHING with better range then 30. I have used two overlords to great effect, and the emperor, oberon and retaliator are great for pounding eldar junk.  How do you keep them alive? form a perimeter around them with your cruisers.  If the eldar attack the cruisers, they suffer from the fire of the battleships (or overlords), if they go for the battleship, they suddenly have a fleet of cruisers ready to pound face.


Lets go over some ships that i suggest you incorporate into your standard fleet, so you don't stack for it :D

The Sword.  Eldar bane at it's finest.  Maneuverable and fast, with a st 4 battery and 2 turrets.  Eldar players either kill these quickly, or suffer the consequences. "But Zelnik!" you say, "Eldar can move up to 60cm in a turn!".  Yes, but usually it's not in a direction or at a distance that is advantageous to them. IF you find yourself JUST out of range (you can premeasure you know!) ALL AHEAD FULL! sure you will get a st 12 battery instead of 24, but thats MORE then enough to crush a cruiser into a bloody tin can.  When it comes to fighting other enemies, it is EXTREMELY efficient, batteries hurt everyone and it's two turrets make capable of surviving ordnance onslaughts.


The Dominator.  "But Zelnik!" you say "Its got a useless nova cannon and 30cm!".  Yes, i would say, but that battery is strength 12.  Get two together, and an AAF broadside is still st 12.  Also, ask any eldar player. Lucky nova cannon hits have ended games before they have begun (it's so delightfully rare for them to brace for impact on an incoming nova cannon after all..) Also, it forms blast markers!

The Tyrant.  "But Zelnik!" you say, "It's expensive to upgrade and has a weaker battery strength!".  Yes, i would say, but it is incredibly useful against ANY opponent because of the range and torpedo/nova cannon option.  No one would doubt the power of a pair of these together with a st 20 battery broadside and 12 torepdos. 

The Overlord. "But Zelnik!" you cry, "It's a useless pile of junk! and the eldar player will say i am stacking!" NO, i would say, it's an alternative to the gigantic battleships, has more firepower and more maneuverability.  You sacrifice extreme firepower for extreme range. Against eldar is useful, against everyone else, it's still useful because you can hit them with batteries and lances at a range where THEY CAN'T HIT BACK. Overlords should never get into the thick of the battle, they should sit back and rank up their kills from behind.  Piece of advice, never take them outside of a squadroned pair.  And if the eldar complains about stacking, tell him to adjust his tactics and quit complaining.

The Mars. "But Zelnik!" you cry, "it's expensive and has a nova cannon!" Yes, i would say, but it can upgrade it's batteries to negate the holofield column shift.  It has bombers, and i made my nova cannon statement quite clear. 

The Armageddon. "But Zelnik!" you whine "it has lances!" yes, i would say, and i would agree it's not the BEST anti-eldar ship, but it still has 45cm batteries, and you get those lance shots without any strength reduction.. blast markers are key!

the Dictator: it's your basic carrier, no bitching from you. 

The other escorts: The firestorm is not nearly as useful as the sword in this case, but it still has the st 2 battery, and lances can still score lucky hits. Cobra's have a lovely 30cm speed, and LOTS of torpedo's, so use them at your leisure.  The odd man out is the Falchion, a strange mix of cobra and sword, consider it an alternative to the sword or cobra, it does it's job well.

Dauntless Light Cruisers: Don't give me gruff about these little beauties.  I would recommend the torpedo versions. Those happy little 5d6 AAF will put you in a lovely attack position.

Endeavor light cruiser: Another Eldar Bane ship.  Not as fast as the dauntless, but manuverable and equipped with a powerful battery. Use them to the greatest advantage you can!

Now the terrain. This is the eldar's most annoying strength.  Mostly, asteroid fields. If there is so much as a single asteroid field on the table, the game just got a LOT harder. 


Asteroids. this is the real pain. They can sit there inside the field, and move through it with extreme ease, and frequently hop between the two.  Mostly what your hoping for is them to fail their LD, and get pulverized by rocks.  There really are two viable options when it comes to an asteroid camper.

1. Dive in and flush them out! Send EVERYTHING into the feild and take the fight to them, and force them out of the field.  this is going to be PAINFUL, but know that no side is not going to come out without a bloody nose.

2. Avoid it like the plague and send bombers to do the dirty work.  This also works, it forces them to keep wasting ordnance on your bombers and so long as you stay outside of range, they won't get a good shot on you without leaving the field for more then a turn.  It's slow and annoys the crap out of both players.

Planets.  These are your best friend. Suddenly you have maneuverability greater then the eldar so long as you stay near it. Three turns (if planned well) can put you in a prime shooting spot. That handy free turns also applies to lock on and AAF.  Planets don't aid eldar very much, sure they get free turns but at most that lets them get to 'abeam' facing. 

Gas Clouds. Eldar HATE this.  It's a giant blast marker. sure they can try to roll their LD, but it hurts their shooting, and can cause damage.  also, you still get to shoot through it. 

Warp Rifts.  If you have a good LD, you can literally navigate it right into the middle of their fleet.  OR you can get lost in the warp... the choice is yours...


Other tips.

If you have a shot, take it. Force the enemy to roll dice, they can't pass every roll.

If you lose, learn from your mistakes, adjust your tactics.

The imperial navy forms a powerful shield wall, force the enemy into a corner.

NEVER attempt to board, even if holofields get knocked down, just shoot the damn thing.

NEVER attempt to ram, unless it comes up through random chance, don't hold it as a viable tactic (example, you do an AAF to get a shooting resolution on the enemy, and it just so happens that you connect with another vessel, it's OK to try the ram, and it forces a holofield save).

IF an enemy's holofields go down, do everything you can to KILL the ship! Surround it with fighters to prevent a disengage!

Send torpedo's into tight eldar groups.

Group bombers in large numbers against cruisers.



The Void Stalker (dun dun dun!): so your friend puts a void stalker on the table.. What do you do? it' has 45 cm range and can fire to the sides. It's basically a super ship in your eyes.. and you would be right. It's one of the top 5 most powerful battleships in the game. (ranking number 4 by my personal ranking system). What do you do?

First things first, he just put a HUGE points sink on the table. The ship is (at minimum) 480 points with an eldar prince, if re-rolls are present, it's worth even more.  For a standard 1500 tournament game, it's 1/3rd of his fleet.  What do you do? you pound it's face in! focus on the void stalker with EVERYTHING YOU HAVE! IF you destroy it, just disengage, you won the game! if you make it disengage, you just hamstrung his fleet.  Push it's face in!


Hellbores (DUN DUN DUN!!!) These things.... hurt.  They are literally designed to destroy one cruiser and cripple another in a single round if used correctly. However, these are also huge point sinks.. If you see six on the table, focus on them, kill them with as much vigor as you can!!

Aconites (Dun DUN!) Ow.  Ow ow ow.  st 5 battery. Ow. 6 of them.  OW.  Kill them with a passion. use torpedo's to break up their formation and force blast marker rolls. 


Special orders, and how to use them to your advantage.

First things first, you have the benefit of the Navigation special orders.  AAF and CTNH are extremely useful. Eldar don't get them.  If they decide to not move, they count as defenses.. and suddenly you get lots and lots of shooty.

Lock On. Eldar RARELY use this, and for good reason.  while they can crump a ship with it, they MUST travel (in the ordnance phase) in the same direction, no turning allowed.  So they have the choice of: Stay put and get pummeled, or move closer to the rest of the fleet..and get pummeled. If they say "lock on" plan to break some face.

BFI. Force them to do this as often as possible. with BFI, there is no reload, there is no lock on.


Any other tidbits of advice are welcome. 

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2010, 09:57:35 PM »
Nice tactics. Most of which rely on your opponent flubbing his saves. I'll just leave Horizon to answer your points as clearly you have not gone up against an Eldar with IN.

Hellebores? Aconites? When most Eldar will be taking Hemlocks and Nightshades?

Offline Zelnik

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2010, 10:23:29 PM »
Great job proving my point in the previous thread, Admiral

For everyone else who doesn't have an over inflated sense of self importance, please comment away.

http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk318/Zelnik/?action=view&current=IMG_20101012_161105.jpg
Here is my eldar fleet, since i clearly don't play them, true it's craftworld, but my corsairs are not painted yet.. So far i am only missing a Nid fleet in my expansive collection :D


Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2010, 10:28:55 PM »
What point? That you're tailoring your list against Eldar? Sure. That you're relying on Eldar to flub their saves against everything else? Sure.

Offline Zelnik

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2010, 10:31:12 PM »
Well since it's clear you did not actually read my post, i suggest you don't post any more until you do so.

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2010, 10:34:15 PM »
I did. Nothing in there that I've not seen before.

Except for maybe letting your ship blow up in the midst of Eldar. Though since it is treated like lance shots, am sure Eldar get a save against those as well. Eldar can ride out an NC explosion of a shot that deviated onto them you know (at least that's what the designers claim).

Oh, and judging by your ship choices, yes, that's pretty much called tailoring.

Offline Zelnik

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2010, 11:41:20 PM »
Admiral, now it's clear you haven't read the RULES.

Eldar do not get holofields against explosions.

And if you have seen these before, then start using them, you may find your fights going a lot better.

It's cute that you want the game to be changed to your image, but your not so important, nor so smart, that you have the right to do so.  The whole basis of eldar is that you either win big, or you lose big.  there is no in-between.

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2010, 12:17:59 AM »
Ok found the errata in the old FAQ PDF. You are correct that it does not save vs Warp/Plasma Drive Implosions. I admit my mistake on that part. Learned something new then.

Even then, aside from that, nothing else in there that I have not seen offered up before. Aside from which I wouldn't recommend sacrificing one ship deliberately as a tactic just to try and hope to hit Eldar with the right distance rolls. See that's the problem with your proposals above. You're hoping to get the right distance or hope Eldar fail their holofield saves. You're asking an IN player to overextend himself from the get go. Yes those can happen but it's not something you build your tactics upon. It's one thing to change up your tactics every so often to try to keep your opponent off guard. It's another to try and figure you wits out on how to reach out and touch Eldar from the get go before they slice you to bits.

Am I claiming I'm that important? No. I'm just a player with some ideas. I do not claim I have a right to do so. On the other hand you're not that important yourself. The game is evolving already with the HA asking for players to test and get their opinions. Whether they use my ideas or yours, what's important is you make yourself be heard. I've tried to look at it from both Eldar and other faction's point of view and you know what? Eldar is broken, no matter how you look at it.

The problem with Eldar is they almost always win. And as you point out when they win, they win big time. Now what does that say about the other player? If it happens once in every few games that's no problem. The fact is since they win almost every time and win big, people will get turned off by it. They will feel bad. People would prefer a nice, closely fought game and it wouldn't matter if they win or lose with the occasional big time win or big time loss. Presently, it's not fun for some factions. And if I remember correctly, there is an entry in the rulebook which says the idea is to have fun.

Again, it's why people have offered up the MMS idea. I'm not saying it's the right ruleset but the reason why it came about, again emphasis on MMS being created by an Eldar player himself and not me, is to make things more even bet Eldar and another faction. If it does so, then I would accept it.

The reality is, all skills being equal, Eldar almost always have the upper hand and win. I understand fighting at a disadvantage but you have to give the disadvantaged guy a reasonable chance of winning without having to resort to extreme tactics. Even Warmachine-Hordes, a definitely borken game with borken models is balanced across factions though some faction can be a bit better than another. I just want things changed for Eldar to be a bit more balanced towards other short ranged factions. If that is cute for you, then nothing I can do about it.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 12:32:28 AM by Admiral_d_Artagnan »

Offline Vaaish

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2010, 12:42:07 AM »
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Escort heavy fleet..
Not a weakness. means there are far more targets and the loss of one or two don't make a dent in the overall battle plan. It basically decentralizes the Eldar firepower ensuring that there will be enough left to still nail the target. It's kind of like getting attacked by a swarm of bees; you can take down a few but there will be plenty more you can't get to send you packing.

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Tough ships, you have 6+ prows, and 5+ armor, and you need 6's to crit. after this game, you will probably be happy for it.
This is mostly irrelevant and a useless point when there can be upwards to 15 pulsar lances on the field hitting on 4+ like your own batteries do to eldar ships and they can get all the benefits of shooting at a closing ship without needing to face the 6+ armor. 6+ crits are nice though.

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Outnumbering the enemy. Your ships are cheaper!
I'd like to point out that in a typical Eldar fleet, you are facing mostly escorts which means that you won't be outnumbering the eldar fleet as IN even though eldar capital ships are more expensive.

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Yes, they get holofields, but the more you force them to roll, the more likely they will roll a 1... and just imagine all those marvelous blast markers.

It should be noted that regardless of how many BM you put down, eldar only have to test once for passing through all of them which really doesn't make it any better than just putting one down and moving on to a different target.

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Group bombers in large numbers against cruisers.
This is inaccurate. It's better to send bombers in one at a time than as a wave because of holofields and the lack of eldar turrets. sending them in one at a time makes eldar test for each bomber rather than once to negate the entire wave. This equals higher odds of getting at least one bomber through.


Why on earth would you list the overlord but not the vengeance? It does everything the overlord does and is harder for eldar to supress... and it brings more firepower to the table. I rarely leave home without a pair of vengeance :)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 12:44:32 AM by Vaaish »
-Vaaish

Offline Zelnik

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2010, 12:54:23 AM »
Sorry, forgot the vengence. And for your information, Eldar do not roll holofeilds for the wave of bombers, they roll holofeilds against the attacks the bombers make. 

Escort fleets suffer from lack of durability, and without shields, it becomes a significant weakness when someone gets a good shot off on you.

I always considered eldar batteries to be more dangerous then pulsar lances. Hitting twice with the same dice is not easy, even when it's a 4+.  IF someone is landing 15 pulsars into you, you should know it's a good time to brace for impact! (maybe ;)

I refer to outnumbering when it comes to hit points, forgive my lack of clarity.



Yes the vengence is a great craft for it, Excellent range and in pairs wreck face, even more so then overlords with their stronger battery strength. a special list is required to take them at the 2 for 1 deal though.

Offline Zelnik

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2010, 01:03:11 AM »
Admiral, thanks for the respectful tone this time. i appreciate it.

What i am trying to say, that just like the space marines in this game, who are not supposed to win most of their games, the Eldar are supposed to. They have been fighting in space for millions of years longer then humanity, and in this setting, and at this scale, technology differences matter.

It's supposed to feel like trying to kill a mosquito with a sledge hammer.  If you can hit it, you crush it flat, but hitting it is the problem.  They are simply BETTER then most of the other races when it comes to space combat. This ISN'T a balanced word!  Why don't they just 'take over everything'? because their ships are low in number, and they don't have the resources to do so. 

It works in very well with the established fluff and for the feel of the game.  Just like the tau suffer heavily on the ground, but their innovative technologies make them far more of a challenge in space.  Necrons are 'slow and cumbersome' on the ground, but in space, they are faster then any other race.  Here, the rules are different. Technological advances make the game, and the IN are behind the times.  When the IN win a game, the player should feel good about overcoming the challenge.

Basically, what i am saying is, this isn't Galactic Civ 2, where everyone has the same ship, but looks different.  This isn't even Sword of the Stars, where the ships are a little different, but the techs are the same. This is closer to Babylon 5,  where an entire fleet of human ships can be defeated by a single minbari cruiser. 


And most importantly of all, this is NOT 40k, where the rules change to sell the newest codex release, and space marines are the darlings of the makers.  If the enemy has better tech, then your tactics had better damn well be better to compensate.

Offline Vaaish

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2010, 02:16:40 AM »
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I always considered eldar batteries to be more dangerous then pulsar lances. Hitting twice with the same dice is not easy, even when it's a 4+.  IF someone is landing 15 pulsars into you, you should know it's a good time to brace for impact! (maybe Wink

well 15 pulsars is just using three squadrons of 5 hemlocks. That's not even factoring in the rerolls, though it ends up something like 12 hits when you do. With the VS, eldar will still be able to take about 25 escorts split between hemlock and nightshades.

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a special list is required to take them at the 2 for 1 deal though.
To be fair, that list is just as official and has same limitations as the gothic list while only lacking the Dominator.

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Escort fleets suffer from lack of durability, and without shields, it becomes a significant weakness when someone gets a good shot off on you.
emphasis on WHEN. escorts are fast and they are harder to hit on the gunnery table. As IN, you don't usually have a lot of long range batteries which makes it even harder to get that shot. I figured it up a long time ago so the numbers are a bit fuzzy, but I think you need something in the range of S30-40 batteries at 45-60cm to have good odds of taking down three or 4 eldar escorts a turn assuming you actually get that kind of shooting off.

My typical fleet is an empy with ab, 2x vengeance, 2x lunar with nc, and 2x dauntless. That fleet is actually the product of a similar thread over on warseer about the competitive viability of the IN. It was designed to weather an alpha strike from that killer tau fleet, have a shot against eldar and chaos, do decently well against marines. I've not faced eldar with it so I can't comment on how well it accomplishes those goals, but it does do pretty well against the chaos and other IN fleets I've taken it up against.
-Vaaish

Offline horizon

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2010, 04:48:18 AM »
Hi,

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Holofields.  Ahh the dreaded "terminator" 2 up save. There are two ways for you to overcome this. 1, bring batteries to the fight (and lots of them)
This is tailoring. Not allowed. ;)

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A lot of eldar rush in for that extra few dice from being within 15cm, make them pay for it.
The wise Eldar player won't. He stays at 30cm. Pulsars do not need to be close and always closing on the gunnery table is enough dice.
Also only these ships are equipped with batteries:
* Shadow = ill adviced ship, never taje
* Solaris = ill adviced ship, never take
* Hellebore = worst ship, never take
* Aconite = with str5 closing is good enough, good ship
* Nightshade = will forgo batterries to fire torpedoes, excellent ship.
* Void Stalker = great ship, will stay at distance. Depending on situation even at 45cm.

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Movement.  Eldar movement is entirely dependent on the sun.  Yes, they get two moves, but this means that you can predict where they go!  If you form a wall of cruisers and herd them into a corner, the only direction they CAN move is through the line, giving you a chance to pound the tar out of them.   Push them to one side of the table, use your defenses to your advantage, and they will have NOWHERE to go.
All in theory, this is the hardest part to predict about Eldar and games with them.

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Even at half strength, a pair of lunars will give you six batteries and two lances, plus ALL of your torpedos.  all you need to do is hit once or twice to give them a really hard time, or even force a brace for impact.
True, AAF can work. Could leave your fleet out of formation though. Also it is torpedoes or guns. Not plus. In most cases.

Yes, bombers are good Eldar chasers.

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Hellbores (DUN DUN DUN!!!) These things.... hurt.  They are literally designed to destroy one cruiser and cripple another in a single round if used correctly. However, these are also huge point sinks.. If you see six on the table, focus on them, kill them with as much vigor as you can!!

Aconites (Dun DUN!) Ow.  Ow ow ow.  st 5 battery. Ow. 6 of them.  OW.  Kill them with a passion. use torpedo's to break up their formation and force blast marker rolls. 

Good Eldar players just never ever take the Hellebore. It is a worthless piece of wraithbone.
The Aconite is taken by the Eldar player who likes batteries in his fleet. I do. They're good.

Best Eldar vessels (Corsair):

* Nightshade, 40pts with the most evil weapon in the game on it : Eldar torpedoes.
* Hemlock, 40pts for a Pulsar lance.
* Under 1000pts the Eclipse for carrier capacity
* The adventurous Eldar players leaves the Eclipse at home and takes Aurora's.
* The Void Stalker is added above 1500pts.

The powergames fleet for 1500 would be:
Void Stalker + Nightshades + Hemlocks.

The more fluffer would add Aconites and perhaps an Aurora.

Solaris, Shadow, Hellebore are just non-options. Only for the fluff only player who likes the dying race aspect. heh heh.

So, Zelnik, what's your allround non tailored Imperial Navy fleet? You recommend a lot of ships but what's your IN fleet.
Curious.


All in all your tactics are not new, not really.

Offline Zelnik

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2010, 07:14:00 AM »
Non tailored fleets.


Here is my double overlord cruiser list.

2 overlords, 50 point commander

2 lunars

2 dictators

1 gothic. 1500 exactly.


I use this against anything, because it's a great against everything.


Fleet number 2.

1 dictator
1 gothic
1 mars
1 Apocalypse battleship
2 battery upgraded tyrants

Again, great balance in the fleet, with two nova cannons.

Fleet number 3

2 Armageddon Battlecruiser
3 Endeavor light cruisers
1 exorcist grand cruiser
1 oberon battleship

Do i need to keep going?

Offline Zelnik

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Re: How to beat Corsair Eldar with IN (it CAN be done without stacking!)
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2010, 07:18:08 AM »
and i will make a point.. I have fleets that use every escort in the corsair eldar arsenal.  I think all of them have a place in the fleet.. and i don't play the 'hardcore i wanna win all the time' fleets.  If i did that, i would bring nothing but dominators to my games as IN. 

It's entirely possible that you are not thinking flexibly enough as to the purpose of the ships you described as useless.  Many people consider the Murder a worthless chaos cruiser, and the Carnage more effective... while i say the carnage is a one trick pony, and i would sooner have a murder.

Don't be so quick to claim that 'everyone' feels the same way.