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Author Topic: Dark Eldar rules changes?  (Read 17527 times)

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Offline Zhukov

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Dark Eldar rules changes?
« on: September 27, 2010, 03:52:53 PM »

So I own about 1200 pts of Dark Eldar and I love the fleet (They play some amazing games against Necrons)! But two things I would like to see changed:

1. Slavetaking should be 20 or 30 pts for a successful raid. This would give me much more incentive to do this. As it stands, at 10 pts per successful A-Boat squadron, I never do it. We should have some more incentive to do this "often foolhardy" perverse thing.

2. The Dark Eldar wouldn't mind a bigger ship.

In regards to the latter, I know many people have discussed a Dark Eldar Battleship. I totally disagree with this. The DE having this size of a ship just doesn't make sense to me. If the DE have a bigger vessel, I would give them the option of upgrading ONE cruiser for a certain points cost with these benefits:

+2 Hit points
+4 Weapons Batteries strength.


If armed with Shadow Lances, upgrade to strength 3 (or 4?)
If armed with Torpedoes, upgrade to strength 6
If armed with Impalers, upgrade to strength 2 (This may even be something to consider for normal cruisers as right now I see no reson to give a DE cruiser an Impaler since the escorts can be armed with them)

Any thoughts? You can discuss the appropriate points cost as I have no idea what would be "fair" to this.

-Zhukov 
I am Zukov's Klaw.

"Oh mah gawd its like a giant veil was just lifted off my face and the beautiful maiden before my eyes just turned into a hideous Ork with a giant, bloody choppa."

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2010, 04:30:41 PM »
DE are just their cousins turned bad. I'm pretty sure in when they were still one race, they all had access to battleships so even if you may think they it doesn't make sense, it doesn't mean the DE can't have one when they split with their cousins.

Offline Zhukov

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2010, 04:40:01 PM »

Oh I realize this. But honestly, does every fleet need a Battleship sized vessel? I say no. The DE have some great flavor with being forced to have 3 escorts per cruiser (THIS IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE FOR EVERY FLEET!!!! wink wink ;) ). How would you get a BB on the table with the above restriction already in place? Because they would need some restrictions besides just a certain number of points in a fleet (like the Void Stalker) to keep with the DE flavor.

-Zhukov
I am Zukov's Klaw.

"Oh mah gawd its like a giant veil was just lifted off my face and the beautiful maiden before my eyes just turned into a hideous Ork with a giant, bloody choppa."

Offline horizon

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2010, 06:00:14 PM »
As said I want DE to follow same mechanics as CWE and CE.

They are all ELDAR.

That's why I made 1 thread for all three of them. :)

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2010, 06:17:08 PM »

Oh I realize this. But honestly, does every fleet need a Battleship sized vessel?
-Zhukov

YES! :p
It would be nice if DE either had more class options, or just give them a grand cruiser and battleship variant that are both as modular as their other ships, and call it even.

As i much prefer MMS rules, it would be nice to see them brought in line with those, with their own unique flavor of course.
Someone should volunteer to work on this.

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2010, 11:00:33 PM »

Oh I realize this. But honestly, does every fleet need a Battleship sized vessel? I say no. The DE have some great flavor with being forced to have 3 escorts per cruiser (THIS IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE FOR EVERY FLEET!!!! wink wink ;) ). How would you get a BB on the table with the above restriction already in place? Because they would need some restrictions besides just a certain number of points in a fleet (like the Void Stalker) to keep with the DE flavor.

-Zhukov

Easy enough. For every X amount of points you get one DE battleship similar to the VS 1 per 1000 points.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2010, 04:56:58 AM »
That works.

Offline Zhukov

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2010, 06:15:28 PM »

Dark Eldar =/= Corsair or Craftworld Eldar. I'm sorry but I believe they should have as little similarities as possible. But this is my opinion on that subject. I must confess though I have limited fluff knowledge on the track this branch of Eldar took after the fall in relation to former technologies of the Empire.

Heavy/Grand Cruiser is what I was looking for, something similair to Flame of Asuryan. What if the condition to field this sized vessel was 1000 pts minimum and needing at least two cruisers present to field it? I think this prevents escort only fleets emerging.

-Zhukov


I am Zukov's Klaw.

"Oh mah gawd its like a giant veil was just lifted off my face and the beautiful maiden before my eyes just turned into a hideous Ork with a giant, bloody choppa."

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2010, 08:09:04 AM »
Little similarities? Culture might be different but I don't think the similarities would be little. It would be more a case of Like and yet unlike.

Here's the DE battleship I made:

Dark Eldar Sadistic Class Battleship.........320
Type/Hits: Battleship/10
Speed: 30 cm
Turns: 90'
Shields: Shadowfield
Armor: 5+
Turrets: 0
Armament: Range/Speed|Firepower/Strength|Fire Arc
Prow Batteries: 45 cm|12|Front

In addition, may be equipped with two of the following for the points shown:

Prow Torpedo Tubes: 30 cm|6|Front +20 points
Prow Phantom Lance: 45 cm|2|Front +20 points
Impaler: AC 30 cm|Special|Front +20 points
Launch Bays: Fighters 30 cm/Bombers 20 cm/ABs 30 cm|4| +40 points

Note:
Does not automatically CTNH but can use CTNH and it's firepower is only reduced by 25% instead of being halved.

Must have 1,000 points worth of DE ships before one can be fielded.

Author's note:
I thought about giving DE the fastest battleship while not on Special Orders. Also gave it heavier firepower on the base ship configuration but only having 2 hardpoints for add-ons for a total of 3 armaments compared the the 4 weapon hardpoints that the Void Stalker has. Comments and critiques welcome.

Offline marengo

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2010, 01:20:16 PM »
I'm with Zhukov all the way on this.

Imperial Navy and Space Marines same "race" different rules.
Why would Dark E, who have adopted all that other Eldar hate and despise, have the same rules as the other Eldar?

Im my experience Dark Eldar do just fine with what they already have, they just don't need a BB and making them the same as other races is not the best way to make each fleet individual.

Offline horizon

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2010, 01:28:03 PM »
You have it wrong.

Eldar should share same core rules. Specialties & ships make them different (eg mimic engines for DE, Aspect Warriors for CWE).

Imperial Navy & Marines have exact the same core rules (movement, shield, etc).  Specialities and ship stats make them different (eg boarding bonus for Marines, Nova Cannon for Imperial Navy).

There is no justification for DE to have other technologies then CE/CWE. Shadowfields are holofields etc.

Thus same core rules. :)


Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2010, 04:55:52 PM »
Eldar (especially Corsair Eldar) don't need a BB really but they got one. Tell ya all what, drop the Coid Stalker from all Eldar lists and I'll agree with everyone who says DE shouldn't get a battleship. If CWE can get an Eldar ship, I don't see why the DE hiding in their homeworld can't have their own BB. They came from the same gene pool. They shared the same history until they diverged millenia ago. I reckon those who eventually became DE would have taken their share of weapons, armor and ships with them.

What is this? More Eldar Loving or Dark Eldar Hating from biased Eldar lovers?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 05:03:39 PM by Admiral_d_Artagnan »

Offline Zell_G

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2010, 05:26:54 PM »
Eldar (especially Corsair Eldar) don't need a BB really but they got one. Tell ya all what, drop the Coid Stalker from all Eldar lists and I'll agree with everyone who says DE shouldn't get a battleship. If CWE can get an Eldar ship, I don't see why the DE hiding in their homeworld can't have their own BB. They came from the same gene pool. They shared the same history until they diverged millenia ago. I reckon those who eventually became DE would have taken their share of weapons, armor and ships with them.

What is this? More Eldar Loving or Dark Eldar Hating from biased Eldar lovers?

I mostly agree on letting the DE having their Battleship (even if I'm an Eldar player  ;D), but the Eldar built their first Void Stalker only after the battle of Gethsemane, and only with Lord Ravensburg's help (if I remember well), so I think that is the reason (even if it's only a "fluff reason") of Eldar for having one BB, and DE not .

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2010, 06:14:23 PM »
No, it appeared during the alliance with Admiral Ravensburg. Nothing in the text actually says it was built that time. In fact the text even says that before, during and after the Gothic War, it has never been defeated.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 06:16:38 PM by Admiral_d_Artagnan »

Offline Zell_G

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2010, 06:35:00 PM »
No, it appeared during the alliance with Admiral Ravensburg. Nothing in the text actually says it was built that time. In fact the text even says that before, during and after the Gothic War, it has never been defeated.

"For almost the entirety of the Gothic War, Eldar fleets were composed mostly of Escort ships accompanied by a few Cruisers. However, after the battle of Gethsemane and the alliance of many of the Eldar pirate fleets with Lord Ravensburg, a new terror was to hunt across the stars."

The paragraph says that during the entire Gothic War Eldar fleets where composed of Escort accompanied by cruisers, and that only after the alliance with Ravensburg the new ship "appeared".

Reading that paragraph I've understood that before that alliance the ship didn't exists at all (because it seems that the alliance with Ravensburg and the battle of Gethesmane are the two main events that led to the "appearance") ; but of course it isn't the only way of interpretation, I concur .
I thought that Ravensburg had borrowed them some Shipyards for the costrunction  ;D

I don't remember if there is something more about that events on Armada or some other book....
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 06:37:21 PM by Zell_G »