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Author Topic: Dark Eldar rules changes?  (Read 17132 times)

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Offline Yegr

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2010, 10:48:12 AM »
Anything smaller than a battleship would definitely count as easy prey wouldn't it?
Yes- but why would they wish to attack another battleship, when they can easily evade it (in a strategic scale), and always hit at the 'soft' targets. I see no logic here. - apart from "because we could". This is the reason I think DE are only a raiding fleet.
Why besiege a castle, when you invade just for loot/slave taking/joy of killing,  and there's plentiful of this outside of the castle walls?
DE pick fights in which they can play with the enemy.

A battleship need not be a result of being built after the DE split off from their cousins. It could already have been in existence at the time. Sure the usual betrayal and killing would be the norm even in such a ship. Then again, wouldn't a ship like that be something worthwhile to kill for?  ;D
You mean in the time in which the Eldar ruled the stars (i.e. before the Fall) and didn't need warships as they are now know (I'm obviously not mentioning the time of war against Necrontyr - as such it was sooooo long ago- probably nothing is left of it)?

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2010, 12:58:24 PM »
Yes- but why would they wish to attack another battleship, when they can easily evade it (in a strategic scale), and always hit at the 'soft' targets. I see no logic here. - apart from "because we could". This is the reason I think DE are only a raiding fleet.
Why besiege a castle, when you invade just for loot/slave taking/joy of killing,  and there's plentiful of this outside of the castle walls?
DE pick fights in which they can play with the enemy.

Why would the DE attack another battleship? Maybe the battleship has been lain low. Maybe it can run rings around the enemy battleship. My DE battleship could actually catch anything smaller than it and do with it as its captain wishes. It can avoid any ship which could take it on. In this sense, it can easily play with the enemy as you say. Me big ship. Catch small ship. Have fun with crew.

You mean in the time in which the Eldar ruled the stars (i.e. before the Fall) and didn't need warships as they are now know (I'm obviously not mentioning the time of war against Necrontyr - as such it was sooooo long ago- probably nothing is left of it)?

How would you know they didn't need warships as they are now? Since they did have that battle with the Necrontyr, you really want to get rid of the only stuff which can take them on if they do come back?

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2010, 06:58:55 PM »
They may have 'ruled the stars' like the Imperium did, maybe even better, with the most powerful fleet and controlling interest in the galaxy.

But I assure you, plenty of threats were still around.

Offline Zhukov

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2010, 04:15:21 PM »

Good! Lots of discussion while I was away!

Dark Eldar have in reality only one real home site left, Commoragh. That would be the only place left for the Dark Eldar to build new ships, in reality (well, maybe anything bigger than an escort sized vessel). Now, it's been a LONG time since the Fall and I think that even one millenia around Commoragh would see so many betryals and such that only a few of the fleet capital ships would be left from the original empire. Maybe as little as one or two. This to me thinks it's not a ship that should be seen in a Dark Eldar fleet list. Also, the Dark Eldar are not interested in attracting a lot of attention from the mainstream universe. If the Dark Eldar started flying around with 10 Hit Point BB's I think even the Exodite and Craftworld Eldar would be willing to hunt them down with aid from mankind. So to me I think this gives a good reason why a Dark Eldar fleet capital ship should not be more than 8 hit points.

This is why I basically proposed a slightly larger cruiser. Add some firepower to the existing cruisers weapon mods and call it a Grand Cruiser. I think first off it's fluffy and secondly, its easiest to do rules wise.

As an aside note, I would be in favor of giving DE cruisers now, the option of having 2 Impalers. Only having one gives it NO reason to take one over an escort.

@Horizon- As I realize that the Exodite, Craftworld, and Dark Eldar all come from the same backgrounds, it does not mean they should share the same technologies entirely. The Dark Eldar have been removed from the Universe as a whole for so long I cannot see them still using the same tech as their 'enlightened' brothers, if anything for the purposes of pride within the Dark Eldar "race". Not to mention, I love the differences in the three fleets as they stand now.

-Zhukov
I am Zukov's Klaw.

"Oh mah gawd its like a giant veil was just lifted off my face and the beautiful maiden before my eyes just turned into a hideous Ork with a giant, bloody choppa."

Offline horizon

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2010, 08:10:00 PM »
Hi Zhukov,
somewhere in an official canon thing it is mentioned the Dark Eldar have a second place akin to Commoragh.

Other Eldar would only defend vs Dark Eldar never hunt. Too risky.


Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2010, 11:06:32 PM »
A DE battleship raiding other ships and even small fleets weaker than it would not just let any ship get away to advertise it exists. It can even just return to Commoragh once-every-DE-gods-knows-when and so can survive betrayals if it has to.

Still no credible reason has been provided to show why DE cannot have a battleship the same as their cousins.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2010, 11:58:29 PM »
Why not just give options, and those who feel a certain way about the fleet can take what they please? 

Offline Zhukov

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2010, 03:32:23 PM »

Horizon,
Well, ok your right in a way. I mentioned CWE and Corsairs hunting Dark Eldar with huge aide from mankind because man would need access to the Webway among other reasons to get to Commoragh. But I have a feeling that if the Dark Eldar seem to be getting united (by sending out larger ships and fleets) that the CWE and Corsairs would take notice first.

Spartacus,
Me and the Admiral are arguing two ship profiles that do exactly that. The thing is though is his BB argument gives the DE something of a rip of the Void Stalker whereas my Grand Cruiser type is just an upgunned cruiser. Basically where his ship might gain a range advantage and a third weapon profile, I have stronger weapons.

Admiral,
Our argument is mostly about a fleet capital ship being 8 or 10 hit points correct? Because if you look at Warp Rift 16, the authors of the big DE article didn't believe in a vessel bigger than 6 HP's. Though, I hate that Mortalitas ship. Not good, not good.

-Zhukov
I am Zukov's Klaw.

"Oh mah gawd its like a giant veil was just lifted off my face and the beautiful maiden before my eyes just turned into a hideous Ork with a giant, bloody choppa."

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2010, 06:05:08 PM »
Hell, give em both a grand and a BB :p

Or even a ship class both CWE and DE use.

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2010, 09:48:37 PM »
Zhukov, they and you believe. Not me. And basically it's our opinions unless otherwise clarified by the HA. As long as nothing bars the DE from getting a battleship, I think they can.

Offline fracas

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2010, 10:37:22 PM »
DE should get a flagship that is larger and more grand than a 6HP cruiser
8HP should suffice, and one per fleet

Offline Zhukov

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2010, 05:03:26 PM »
The biggest thing I see Admiral is how are you going to model your 10 hit point ship? That would have to be a significantly larger vessel in terms of hull size. With an 8 HP ship, you could just model it by adding pieces from the existing pieces sold by GW. Case in point, the Dark Eldar Cruiser in Gothicomp this year. That would look sufficient for a fleet capital ship (8HP). In fact, it has ;)

-Zhukov
I am Zukov's Klaw.

"Oh mah gawd its like a giant veil was just lifted off my face and the beautiful maiden before my eyes just turned into a hideous Ork with a giant, bloody choppa."

Offline horizon

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2010, 07:32:25 PM »
Oh, Zhukov, endless possibilities. For one, I know the admiral's model...

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2010, 09:58:44 PM »
The biggest thing I see Admiral is how are you going to model your 10 hit point ship? That would have to be a significantly larger vessel in terms of hull size. With an 8 HP ship, you could just model it by adding pieces from the existing pieces sold by GW. Case in point, the Dark Eldar Cruiser in Gothicomp this year. That would look sufficient for a fleet capital ship (8HP). In fact, it has ;)

-Zhukov

I've had one sitting around for a while. Just too lazy to paint it up.

Offline flybywire-E2C

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Re: Dark Eldar rules changes?
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2010, 06:18:27 PM »
There are a lot of great ideas here, but many of them are difficult to incorporate into official rules for a fleet that consists primarily of an enormous number of independent and mutually antagonistic Cabals that exist solely as pirate raiders devoted primarily for the taking of slaves and raw materials from whoever or whatever they are strong enough to overcome. A Dread Archon is an imposing figure in WH40k terms, but in BFG terms an individual Dread Archon has at his disposal at best maybe three or four cruisers accompanied by a dozen escorts or so. Even the largest of them would have little more than twice these numbers, and they would not encumber themselves with larger vessels that would be correspondingly less maneuverable, not as fast, etc.

if anything, a Dread Archon's personal flagship would probaly have one or two refits as opposed to being something significantly larger or more powerful. As much as the Cabals hate each other, the first Archon that developed a ship significantly more powerful than his rivals would probably have said ship jumped, holed and offered up to Slaanesh. teh Dread Archon refits idea is something that can be added to the Eldar Domain rules if there is enough support, but we are not looking at creating a larger ship class, especially something that can't be easily modeled (meaning available as a single kit).

Based on the new Dark Eldar Codex, here are some other rules we are proposing for the Eldar Domains document:

When selecting scenarios, Dark Eldar always roll against the Raid table on p.65 of the rulebook. However, if the Dark Eldar fleet is the attacker and has a fleet 1,500 points or greater, they may elect to play a Planetary Assault on a D6 roll of 6 instead of rolling for it randomly. For campaigns, Dark Eldar fleets operate from a pirate base as described on p.151 of the rulebook and may earn up to three in the course of a campaign.

Shadowfield. The Dark Eldar utilize Shadowfields on all their starships, a more powerful and extremely stealthy version of the Night Shields utilized by their surface units. They work in the same manner as Holofields but impart an additional right-column shift (after all other modifiers are applied) to that provided by normal Holofields.

Then we add this note to the Eldar Haven:
Eldar Havens utilize shadowfields, which work as...

Then we modify the repulsion generators rule to become the Polarization Field that already exists in the Eldar refit tables. This makes this system a separate, pre-existing item in parallel with the Shadowfields as opposed to yet another something new. This way we don't have one mechanic for Eldar, a second mechanic for Dark Eldar and a THIRD mechanic for the Haven, which is the one thing that really bothered me about the Repulsion Fields mechanic.

Finally, if we incorporate this, we have to make the Netherfield refit unavailable to the Dark Eldar (roll again) because it and the new Shadowfield are essentially the same thing.

Thoughts?


- Nate






While they can and will engage in planetary assaults when they have the forces to do so, this is something even they will not do lightly.
Check out the BFG repository page for all the documents we have in work:
http://tinyurl.com/23nul8q
:) Smile, game on and enjoy!           - Nate