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Author Topic: Eldar - ReDesign / Rules Development  (Read 15517 times)

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Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Eldar - ReDesign / Rules Development
« Reply #60 on: September 29, 2010, 09:08:47 AM »
You don't roll less lance shots as you go further out the range bands, the difficulty to hit just increases.

Also, I hope whatever is decided, its something more intuitive than forcing rerolls on all hits.  That would be frustrating for the opposing player, as well as more complicated than a simple modifier. 

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Eldar - ReDesign / Rules Development
« Reply #61 on: September 29, 2010, 12:13:41 PM »
Horizon's computations show flat 6+ "to hit" and allowing Lock On seems viable.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Eldar - ReDesign / Rules Development
« Reply #62 on: September 29, 2010, 06:19:43 PM »
Edit:
Does that mean you like my idea?  What more is there to talk about? I wanna know how to play my friend's eldar fleet :)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 07:30:20 PM by lastspartacus »

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Eldar - ReDesign / Rules Development
« Reply #63 on: September 30, 2010, 08:13:27 PM »
Double post, damn it.

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Eldar - ReDesign / Rules Development
« Reply #64 on: September 30, 2010, 10:33:11 PM »
No, I mean that it's either choose 5+ with forced re-roll and no Lock On or 6+ with no forced re-roll and Lock On.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Eldar - ReDesign / Rules Development
« Reply #65 on: September 30, 2010, 11:49:25 PM »
No, I mean that it's either choose 5+ with forced re-roll and no Lock On or 6+ with no forced re-roll and Lock On.

When you say no forced reroll and lock on do you mean 'no forced reroll and no lockon allowed'?

Because otherwise, thats exactly my proposed rule, past 30cm anyway.  Simplicity and survivability making sweet interstellar love.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 11:51:46 PM by lastspartacus »

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Eldar - ReDesign / Rules Development
« Reply #66 on: October 01, 2010, 12:07:52 AM »
No, I mean that it's either choose 5+ with forced re-roll and no Lock On or 6+ with no forced re-roll and Lock On.

When you say no forced reroll and lock on do you mean 'no forced reroll and no lockon allowed'?

Because otherwise, thats exactly my proposed rule, past 30cm anyway.  Simplicity and survivability making sweet interstellar love.

I mean 6+ to hit and no forced re-roll on hits. Lock On is allowed. Both of my suggestions reflect how the lances work for all range bands.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 12:17:36 AM by Admiral_d_Artagnan »

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Eldar - ReDesign / Rules Development
« Reply #67 on: October 01, 2010, 03:09:17 AM »
Right, thats exactly my proposal, except I feel like allowing it, no matter how close the enemy ship is, is OP.
I always felt holofields were better at range. 
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 03:11:16 AM by lastspartacus »

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Eldar - ReDesign / Rules Development
« Reply #68 on: October 01, 2010, 03:18:59 AM »
Yes but they already have so many special rules. Adding more special rules, in this case to an already special rule, is detrimental. Granted it will benefit the non-Eldar race more but I prefer simplicity more at this point.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Eldar - ReDesign / Rules Development
« Reply #69 on: October 01, 2010, 03:30:55 AM »
I dunno.  I wouldn't find it hard at all to remember them.  Its pretty simple, and requires no extra measurement.
'Holofields:
Shooting at a ship with holofields requires a 5 to hit beyond 15cm, and a 6 beyond 30cm.
Weapon batteries always suffer a right column shift.
Nova cannons reroll direct hits.'

Pretty simple, to me.


Being right next to an eldar ship and 6s to hit is rough.  Actually I was also going to suggest a self denial of my previous 'ignores column shift for under 15cm just to give the opposing fleet a chance.

I mean, look at how hard the Eldar hit right now.  I think this system allows superb protection at long range, get first strike, and then give the enemy fleet some chance at retaliation with what remained of it.

I guess now all we are arguing is whether or not Eldar deserve the same saves at close range, so at least we are getting somewhere :)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 03:45:43 AM by lastspartacus »

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Eldar - ReDesign / Rules Development
« Reply #70 on: October 01, 2010, 05:01:20 AM »
I'm willing for them to get the 6+ save vs lances at any range. They should be more vulnerable to WBs anyway.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Eldar - ReDesign / Rules Development
« Reply #71 on: October 01, 2010, 05:31:12 AM »
Thats something I'd be willing to concede on.  But let me say two things.

1.  Keeping everything getting the same reduction to hit makes things simpler.

2.  I havn't really crunched the numbers, but wouldnt lances hit less simply because they get less shots?  I should see after the column shift how batteries do vs lances.

Working...
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 07:22:17 PM by lastspartacus »

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Eldar - ReDesign / Rules Development
« Reply #72 on: October 09, 2010, 12:05:25 AM »
After thinking about it, I have to admit, that I think lances should indeed simply get a save against them.

They just are indeed quite different from batteries.
Also, it makes rolling 6's with necron lances actually worth something :p

Edit:  Speaking of the Eldar's ancient enemy, check out the thread I made in the exp. rules section.  I posted some more questions/comments for you guys since the initial post.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Eldar - ReDesign / Rules Development
« Reply #73 on: October 09, 2010, 11:13:18 PM »
Ok.  How about a modified oldschool fix?

Holofields:  For direct fire weapons such as lances or batteries, holofields allow a 2+ if beyond 30cm away.
4+ at 16-30, and 6+ 15 and below.  Maybe batts suffer a right shift still, maybe remove easy crits.

Or just apply a save to lances and keep the armor/column shift idea for wbs?

Or:  Holofields cause eldar to be +6 armor unless inside 15cm.  Vessels under holofields never suffer from left column shifts at 15cm.  Holofields allow a 3+ save from lances.

The last just occured to me, and I really like it.  Allows batts to be more effective even at range than lances.

*edited typo, 6+ when OUTSIDE of 15 cm*
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 12:22:50 AM by lastspartacus »