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Author Topic: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG  (Read 116025 times)

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Offline horizon

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #570 on: December 22, 2010, 12:05:56 PM »
Only one Caste in space:
Air Caste.

The FireCast is asked for the Kor'or'vesh to improve boarding.
The Envoy (?) caste asks the air caste to be transported.

Offline Zelnik

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #571 on: December 22, 2010, 05:49:21 PM »
what is this envoy cast you speak of? i think you mean Ethereals.

Offline commander

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #572 on: December 22, 2010, 06:17:44 PM »
Diplomats are water caste.

Offline horizon

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #573 on: December 22, 2010, 08:25:02 PM »
Ah yes, that's the name. Thnx.

Offline spaint2k

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #574 on: December 29, 2010, 03:45:42 AM »
I must apologize if this has already been addressed in this thread, but in the Demiurg and Kroot Xenos Fleet List, why are we limited to only fielding Endeavour-class light cruisers? I'm asking mostly because I happen to have Endurance and Defiant-class light cruisers ready to go with my Rogue Trader cruiser and the restriction in the list seems arbitrary.

Offline fracas

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #575 on: December 29, 2010, 03:53:40 AM »
1. there has been serious discussion regarding the endeavor class and its two variants and what they should be like

2. uncoupling was also discussed

3. did you see the rogue trader pdf?

Offline spaint2k

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #576 on: December 29, 2010, 06:23:04 AM »
1. there has been serious discussion regarding the endeavor class and its two variants and what they should be like

2. uncoupling was also discussed

3. did you see the rogue trader pdf?

1 & 2. Not in this thread, I guess. :)

3. Yeah, but I'd have to have a ridiculous amount of vessels to get my three  Demiurg ships on the table.

The xenos list just looked like a nice way to run a combo Xenos/Rogue Trader fleet - which is how it was undoubtedly intended. It's just a shame that this part of my personal model collection (RT cruiser, defiant- and endurance-class light cruisers, three escorts, three Demiurg ships) won't be playable without ignoring the restrictions - which I will anyway, I suppose.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #577 on: December 29, 2010, 12:45:10 PM »
If you like Demiurg, I suggest using Xizor's Demiurg rules, and bothering him to update them :)

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #578 on: December 31, 2010, 01:01:22 AM »
Bumping this.  Nate, please help us out here.  The Tau fleet is so close to perfect that I'd hate to have to homebrew one little thing, seriously.

The current Custodian is unacceptable in gameplay and fluff with the rest of the fleet.  It is so close Nate, so close!

I think at this point the Cruiser status and 90* turn crowds would settle for either if it meant the choice between that or straight battleship status.
I know I would, seriously, just make it cruiser status.  Its not how I feel it should be, but I'll play it that way without making homebrew.
If you make it stay the way it is, I'll be forced to homebrew if I want a ship that has can participate at all with the rest of the fleet.
Please, just make it Cruiser status.

Cruiser status and deflector shield.
2 fighter bays on emissary variant.
PERFECT!  You're in the home stretch now buddy, just overcome whatever GW brainwashing gave you those fluff ideas and we will all feast in Valhalla! :p

Offline Zelnik

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #579 on: December 31, 2010, 03:59:08 AM »
I am so torn about that 'cruiser' status.  I really could go either way.  As long as it gets a prow deflector, i am golden (there is no reason why it should not have it)

Two fighter version of the emissary? I am good with that. 

Offline horizon

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #580 on: December 31, 2010, 04:20:51 AM »
I do want Grand Cruiser Custodian as well but I cannot brand it as unplayable at the moment to be honest. Just not totally right

The Emissary: variants need te be condensed I think.

Offline Zelnik

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #581 on: December 31, 2010, 08:29:47 AM »
mmmh... Again, I am really pounding my head against the wall..
Sure i would LOVE to see 12 hits on that SOB... i really don't know why they would design DOWN in ship toughness all together, considering the progressive nature of their society, without some significant enhancements to firepower.
Though admittedly, a Custodian can mop the floor with an explorer on general principle. 

We are pounding our heads on a razor edge. Do we give the Custodian the power of cruiser level maneuverability? Or do we call it a battleship and insist on increased toughness?

If i had my say, it would share a standard battleship carrier profile. (12/battleship, 20cm,  45 turn, 4 shield, 5 turret, 5+ (6+grav prow). While retaining it's Launch capacity 8.  This would force it's point cost to increase to close to 400 points, but so what? I fail to see that as a problem, because even with this profile, it is still a weaker choice then the Chaos or Imperial battleships, while rightfully outstripping Gorbag's revenge.

Currently, it's stats are impressive for a grand cruiser hull, costed at a battleship's price. With none of the benefits. While I understand the need to clarify their current inferior status to Imperial technology, new and old, at it's current position it is WORSE then it's equivalent Ork battleship, Gorbag's revenge. 

Gorbag now will have access to LOTS of new gubbin's, already outstrips the custodian's current position in hits, launch capacity, can take the new boarding torpedos, better firepower all around, can upgrade it's turrets to match, can upgrade shields to match... How do you justify this? Tau are supposed to have superior technology to orks, but inferior to Imperial Navy and chaos.

Here is my compromise, as both a battleship, and a grand cruiser.

Battleship 350 points
12/battleship, 15cm speed, 45 turn, 5+ armor, 4 shields, 5 turrets
Armament
Port and starboard st 6 weapons battery, 45 cm FL and FR respectively
Port and starboard st 1 Ion cannon 45cm, FL and FR respectively
Ventral grav hooks for 3 wardens
Port and starboard st 4 launch bays for mantas and barracudas, resulting an a LC 8
Prow gravitic launcher st 7

special rules: tracking system, grav prow, cannot CTNH

This makes the vessel a TRUE battleship, not as good as the emperor (which can load assault boats, has a much better weapons battery, and has a leadership bonus which usually results in huge points savings for an IN commander) or the Despoiler (which always has a-boats, is faster, has better lance strength and flexibility, better torpedo strength OR even better lance strength and is better in boarding actions).  While still being a true 'battleship' and is not subject to the usual "nova cannon doom barrage" which is quite common when these are fielded.

Here is the grand cruiser version.

Take the exact armament from the current draft.
10/g.cruiser, 45 turn, 20cm speed, 5+ armor, 3 shields, 5 turrets.

Special rules.
cannot CTNH, tracking systems, grav prow

What this does is make it clearly a "not quite" battleship.  The tau being so close to true battleship level, but unable to really put the mass into the ship to give it durability.  They do benefit from a slightly better maneuverability, but the ship is too heavy to CTNH properly.  You get the best of both fluffy worlds. 


Remember... you need to be able to beat Gorbag in order to make this ship properly fluffly. 

Offline Plaxor

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #582 on: December 31, 2010, 08:41:08 AM »
Remember... you need to be able to beat Gorbag in order to make this ship properly fluffly. 

I hear from a credible source that if someone beats Gorbag, he takes revenge on you. Massive 12 hit revenge.

I don't think it has to be better than Gorbags 'can' be. Remember this is tau, not Orks, your ordinance is better and Leadership, which is great on carriers. Also the Gorbags according to Faq 2010 got worse (thanks nate...) due to a combination of the fact that you roll for the random launch capacity of its dorsal launch bays every turn, instead of when you launch (used to be that you would just count the maximum of your random launch bays as the maximum that you could have in play) and the decision to make every random launch bay have to pay maximum price for any upgrades (such as torpedo bommerz).

The Torpedo bommerz thing was especially a punch in the groin, as not only are they worse (as they will disappear) but they are more expensive. Averages always works better for determining how much something is worth. Most people see D6+4 and think 10, not 7, it's a strange phenomena.

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #583 on: December 31, 2010, 08:47:35 AM »
It just needs to ditch the "cannot CTNH" and drop to cruiser status.

The Castellan is crap. Just a bunch of VPs to the opponent.

The Warden is OK, but not as good as the Orca. Also, the model is tiny. If that thing has 5+ armour then Eldar ships should have 6+ armour.



Offline horizon

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #584 on: December 31, 2010, 08:51:39 AM »
Castellan is good. :/ (played it, tested it, yakihaki).

Well, they tell us Necron armour values represent stealth. Perhaps Wardens have 5+ armour because they are hard to hit due size?
lol

4+ on them would not be off limits tbh. It is better then the Orca though!