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Author Topic: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG  (Read 118439 times)

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Offline KivArn

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #195 on: October 18, 2010, 01:36:04 PM »
Except fluff wise the emissary is really not a required ship. it's a diplomatic vessel, at most 1 or 2 in any fleet. You'd either have 1 plus it's escort of protector/castellans or a couple in a larger fleet. However more often than not, I doubt you'd see one in a fleet.

How it is currently portrayed is fine IMHO :)

Offline Caine-HoA

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #196 on: October 18, 2010, 01:45:24 PM »
I dont think that the one sentence that describes the Emissary as a diplomatic vessal should be an argument against a variety of fleet options. If you insist on that you could as well simply drop the whole ship and say its not used as a combat ship.
What i mean is that fun in the game should have a higher priority than one sentence written as a fluff description of a certain vessal.
Thus the above suggested use of the Emissary shouldnt be declined by that one sentence if it created more depth for a tau player/fleet list.

Anyway i would like to hear more opinions on my suggestion.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 01:47:44 PM by Caine-HoA »

Offline Don Gusto

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #197 on: October 18, 2010, 03:05:47 PM »
I suggested the same thing on page 1 of this thread.

Offline Caine-HoA

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #198 on: October 18, 2010, 03:24:58 PM »
Cool didnt remember that. So we are already two who think it might work well ;-)

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #199 on: October 18, 2010, 05:10:06 PM »
Meanwhile i had an idea:

What if we take the tracking system from the Custodian to the Emissary. With only 10cm range od the system the Custodian would have problems following/staying close to the Cruisers. The Emissary on the other side is perfect for both staying with a Protector or supporting Castellans.

This way you could make the Emissary a much more needed ship and would avoid Custodian & Protector only fleets the same time as you give a Tau player more options how to use the tracking system. in addition it gives the easy to destroy Emmisary at least a small defence backup against ordnance.

Thumbs up.

Offline Vaaish

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #200 on: October 18, 2010, 05:20:52 PM »
I think that moving the tracking system to the emissary would make it far to plentiful in the Tau fleet.
-Vaaish

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #201 on: October 18, 2010, 06:25:45 PM »
Perhaps.  Final things that need doing.

add 1 to the battery strength of the warden.

Iron out, as has been said before, the variant options.  Some are too 'same and vanilla'

Looking it over again, the Castellan really seems 5 points overpriced.  50 is a bit too steep for this guy.

Otherwise, I really like this fleet a whole lot more than I thought I would.  Im not a fan of resilient mantas overall, but this looks like it will be alot of fun to play, different but not better/worse than GW Tau, and flavorful.  Well done :)

Offline horizon

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #202 on: October 18, 2010, 07:43:22 PM »
Hi LS, lets wait what Nate does.

For now I do not see a change needed to the Warden. Its weapon arcs are different to the Orca and speed is higher. And I tested it in a lot of battles.

Tracking Systems on the Emissary? Not so fan. If majority decides then as +15pts upgrade.

Castellan is priced perfectly, again tested many times. The FW variant had 2 missiles/3 railguns @ 30cm for 50pts and it was an essential ship to my fleet. In Project Distant Darkness is has 2 missiles/2 railguns @45cm just like in the draft heh heh and it works perfect.

Keep in mind that the Castellan in a squadron supported by a Custodian or Messenger gains extra dice above 30cm now. 3 Castellans have 6 railguns but under tracking systems it is 8 above 30cm.
Plus it can keep more distance = good for escorts and fly along Protectors.

50pts is spot on.


Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #203 on: October 18, 2010, 07:53:42 PM »
switching the l/r/f on the orca and giving it a 5cm boost is worth 5 points?  Im not saying the Warden is an awful escort by any stretch.  I just have high expectations on towed escorts.  You know, make me really want to lose the ion cannons on my emissary to bring more of em, kind of thing.

When I see the Castellan, I cant help but compare to the 30 point cobra.  Lose 5cm movement and gain another 1 point in battery, turret, and armor.
Worth 20 points?  Granted, Tau torps are nice, but I dunno If I would take a 2/3 increase, when I could take an Emissary for just a bit more than 2 castellans.  But yes, I havnt playtested.  If you readily reach for them, then you must think they are worth it.

In my opinion on balancing, if theres a ship thats a no-brainer not to include, it needs to be better :)
Aka, all great choices.  If thats the case, then yay.

Offline horizon

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #204 on: October 18, 2010, 08:06:21 PM »
Hi once again,

Castellan vs Cobra:
4+ armour vs 5+ armour
+1 battery + 15cm range
+ missile range
+1 turret
-5cm speed

is worth 20pts to me. :) The armour is a biggie. The Range and missiles as well. Really, you'd learn to love this vessel.

Better match is versus the Infidel:
same armour, +1 turrets, boarding torps vs missiles, -10cm speed, +15cm range.

Warden, yes 5pts warranted. 5cm means it can overtake the Custodian. So I can keep it a little further back.

I can present an abeam target to shoot with 1 lance, which is better then 2 batteries.


Look, I have my flying hours with this Castellan and Warden and I would not, never, increase them in strength. Nor lower points.

Perhaps you think on paper that they look perhaps a lesser choice but they truly aren't. They can win games. (From experience...).


ps the 4RG Warden variant for 25pts would be cute to be honest.

edit:
Firewarriors on the ships
Since the ships in the draft all have firewarrariors aboard to get normal boarding values what is the status of Merchants, Heroes and Explorers taken in this fleet. In a joint fleet operation I can see Firewarriors stationed on all vessels. Would it be an idea to add Firewarriors to mentioned ships for +15pts if a Kor'O & Custodian is present?

If Firewarriors was dropped completely I would have nu qualms about it either.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 06:25:34 AM by horizon »

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #205 on: October 19, 2010, 08:56:01 AM »
Dropped completely from both Tau lists you mean?

I almost suggested that when I first read the PDF.  But I just dont know.  My only thought is that being less of a carrier fleet, they will be deep into the enemy, right?  How would they ever survive against tyranids or other close range fleets? (Granted, if you are boarded by nids it doesnt matter what your boarding value is.

Offline flybywire-E2C

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #206 on: October 20, 2010, 03:25:27 AM »

edit:
Firewarriors on the ships
Since the ships in the draft all have firewarrariors aboard to get normal boarding values what is the status of Merchants, Heroes and Explorers taken in this fleet. In a joint fleet operation I can see Firewarriors stationed on all vessels. Would it be an idea to add Firewarriors to mentioned ships for +15pts if a Kor'O & Custodian is present?

If Firewarriors was dropped completely I would have nu qualms about it either.

Fire Warrior cadres are included on the Kor'or'vesh ships because they are actual combat warships, designed to survive in a close-range firefight against orks, which will be trying to board them. What came up in play-testing was leaving them half-boarding along with their reduced HP's made Ork tactics against them simplistic: AAF until you are in their guns range, BFI until you close the distance, board them and watch them pop like soap bubbles.

The intent is that the Fire Warriors mechanic is reserved ONLY for Kor'or'vesh ships. Kor'vattra ships are more a merchant fleet than true warships, which is why their primary defense is their ordnance, which they have much more of compared to Kor'or'vesh ships (especially now). In game terms, allowing Kor'vattra ships to be ordnance-heavy AND take away the half-boarding value (not too large a burden because they are turet-heavy, which was intentional) removes the Orks one real advantage against them and would swing the pendulum too far against the greenskinz.

When selecting a Tau fleet, the current fleet options mean you have to pick how you want to play: Do yo want lots of hard-hitting ships, or do you want much flimsier vessels protected by lots and lots of ordnance? Of course you are also allowed to mix and match, but the more Kor'or'vesh ships you take, the less ordnance you will have for a given total points.

- Nate

Check out the BFG repository page for all the documents we have in work:
http://tinyurl.com/23nul8q
:) Smile, game on and enjoy!           - Nate

Offline horizon

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #207 on: October 20, 2010, 07:15:27 AM »
Fine with me. I just wanted to point it. Still flufwise I could see an unofficial house rule being like what I said (+15-20pts for Firewarriors on 'old' vessels).

I am just waiting for the new draft. :)

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #208 on: October 20, 2010, 10:47:26 AM »
Wasnt that new draft promised yesterday? :)

Offline flybywire-E2C

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #209 on: October 20, 2010, 02:12:02 PM »
Fine with me. I just wanted to point it. Still flufwise I could see an unofficial house rule being like what I said (+15-20pts for Firewarriors on 'old' vessels).

I am just waiting for the new draft. :)

Sure, of course they can! Like I said, WR is going to be awesome! I certainly don't mind at all this being a house rule and I have a whole slew of house rules I use. However, because this disturbs the balance we are trying to program into the fleet, we can't acually make it official.

Yes, I know the new Tau draft is late. Unfortunately, real life got in the way of me getting it done last night. I should have both this and the new Rogue Traders draft out today. Sorry!  :-\

- Nate
Check out the BFG repository page for all the documents we have in work:
http://tinyurl.com/23nul8q
:) Smile, game on and enjoy!           - Nate