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Offline Kraken

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #90 on: May 25, 2010, 06:45:44 PM »

And where did I say that I wanted Eldar nerfed? Point it out to me please. On the contrary, even with the Eldar being powerful as they are, I already pointed out that I accept the advantages they have. I even agree that CWE should get a Void Stalker-esque battleship with 5+ armor and access to all the existing Eldar weaponry. I even said, let the CWE escort have the regular pulsar. If not the DE pulsar. Are those about nerfing Eldar, whatever variety? No.

You did not and I also feel we have reached some kinda happy compromise, however I have to agree with blue dagger somewhat, having never being involved with a forum discussion with you before I did find the 'chip-on-your-shoulder) a little difficult to get past myself....

What I am against is adding that NC and Pulsar special weapon or any other weapons which may result in even more broken Eldar.

As usual I still feel that any special weps will not change the power balance one jot......


Please READ the posts before you make accusations which are patently false.

I must say sometimes I have felt you have not read or mis-read my posts and subsequently gone off on one, tis good advice for anyone that uses a forum

This thread is a CWE specific spin-off from the FAQ where Ray is testing the waters for a CWE pdf change.
More ships: well, that is Kraken who wants a CWE battleship. Ray says the CWE are getting the Void Stalker (FAQ). Unofficialy I'd like to add the old Space fleet models.

I too would not mind seeing the old Space fleet models , they are very elegant and much more like how eldar ships still appear in art. IN real life one of my loves is yachts so choosing to use the eldar fleet was not difficult ....


[quoteAlso, no offense but I'm not a fan of MMS either. Too many changes from the original design.

I do not want to ruffle any feathers but I must cast my vote in favor of MSM.(not saying it is perfect)

But, anyhoo.,, those changes are needed since the original design is flawed & broken & bad & etc.

flawed yes , most wargames rules to some degree are , if you have been playing GW games for any length of time you will be familiar  with the syndrome.

Uh huh but if you are firing from the range of the NC, you get 2-3 turns of no one being able to shoot back at you, unless you are playing on a small table. Then when combat is near, the battleship can forgo firing the NC, zip to the back arc of the enemy fleet and then  next turn be in a position to hit the opposing fleet from behind where the opposing fleet can't do much to hurt you.  Trust me when I say i know the tactical maneuverability of Eldar and how to make it work for me.

Mine is much shorter range than the usual NC.... you said you had read the rules ?

Eldar is broken. It wins prolly 80% of the time at the hands of an average player esp on a table with terrain. In the hands of an ace player, they can be hardly beat. That's how broken it is. You already imply how well your win-loss ratio is.

My win loss ratio is pretty much identical in 40k with Eldar, which is not considered a broken army, they play very differently from other armies too but no one is trying to re write them into a space marine type list because that is what people are used too....

most of the armies/fleets in either game are tough to beat in the hands of an ace player, believe



And again, for the last time, I don't care if you get only one of it. That's still one too many. Again, the question is not about the battleship but the weapon. And yes, even Horizon will say that with a Stalker, the CE fleet works as well if not better coz now I have 45 cm pulsar lances to use.

A few posts ago you were expounding the power of escort only lists, we all know they are much worse than a stalker list in the right hands, so don't change your tune now just because it suits your stance.....


The difference is you're adding something to your already broken fleet. You DON'T need it. I dislike NC spams and would like to do something about it. Increasing it's efficiency, not overwhelmingly but limiting it's availability is what I want done. You can check the old Warp Rift mags for my ideas for change in the NC rules. I kept most of the limitations but only bumped up the effectiveness by a bit. I am not ask for shield ignoring, no minimum range, autocritting NC shots even though IN need it more than Eldar.

The reason I made it ignore shields was not  to cheese it up, but in fact because that is how D-weps work, there is a precident within existing published games workshop rules for D weps functioning in this manner.

1 crit is no big deal, try having everything being crit on a 4+ all the time


Thing is you are assuming that any changes would further break it without sitting on any evidence to support it , I wanted to see for myself rather than argue with you so i have arranged for some playtests , if it does indeed perform as you 'theorize'  over the course of several games I will gladly concede your point.

Actually the burden is on you to prove that adding those two weapons won't break Eldar further. Hey it's what you want. Prove it then ask me to play it.

No problems as I said I have already made some effort towards supporting my claims and will report back at some point. I think you are just afraid to be proved wrong  :P

Showing that a weapon which is like the NC without the limitations is proof already of how broken it can get. I've given you scenarios on how it can singlehandedly destroy a battleship. The negatives are hardly enough to offset the positives added. You still won't accept that, fine. But you haven't played it and against it yourself so we're both on the same plane. You have no right to ask me to play a few games then give my thoughts when  you haven't even played it and against it yourself (while using a non-Eldar fleet).

There are plenty of limitations , you just cannot see them .I'm waiting for objective opinions from other people before i play with or against it, im hardly going to be the most un biased judge now am I ??



But this is more emphatic when it comes to Eldar. That is the only way Eldar will lose.

Thats flat out fiction , I have lost games when I have played near perfectly,some people are very good/lucky with their fleets you are also forgetting that the dice can also wreck the best laid plans.

2 dragonships can have six pulsars six torps and 4 AC's at present and are faster and have more hits , they will achieve the same result in the scenario you put forth but for nealy 100 less points, they will get away further too . just to put it into context for you ....

6 30 cm Pulsars and 6 torps and 4 AC vs 6 45 cm Pulsars, D6 NC shot with autocrit and either 8 torps or 4 AC. 520 points vs 450 points. I don't see how it's 100 points less.

I said 'nearly' , 70  is the best part of 100 so 'nearly'?

You also have to add the Wraithships for the Dragonships whereas the Phoenix can fit automatically in 1000 points (or 1500, doesn't matter). It's your choice what you want to play, Dragonships or the Phoenix. It all comes down to playstyle. It doesn't mean either option is not effective and the Phoenix obviously comes out to be more effective on an individual ship basis.

Yes well it would be a pretty poor BB if it was not ....

That's the price you pay with already better and effective weapons. Any further additions will not be well received.

By you, what gives you the right to put words in the mouth of every single person that plays BFG, most of the people I have shown it so far thinks it is pretty cool, some even said they would enjoy the challange, some people said it would need limiting ie one per fleet and only at 1500 plus. Everyone has at very least been constructive.

I say broken because the entire community basically agrees Eldar're broken literally (as in breaks a lot of the rules) and figuratively (they win godawful lotsa times). Tell us. What's your win-loss ratio? My IN would roughly be in the 60-40 Win-Loss. Now add these weapons you want. Doesn't broken+broken lead to all the more broken?

Not being funny but I don not loose much , at any of the wargames I play , I have a regular pool of at least 30 opponents and do wargames at least three times a week . I also run the local games club, my win-loss ratio has nothing to do with the fleet I use.

A bad workman ......


D- weps are advanced vortex weps , they are deadly in 40k and destroy the hell outta titans in apocalypse (they also inflict instant death and ignore shields)

Titans are minute in comparison when compared to 5km long battleships, 3km long cruisers or even 1km long escorts with weapons designed to kill ships. Even a Firestorm can obliterate a Titan from orbit with it's lance weaponry.

Yes so if a lance = a ship sized lascannon.... what would a ship sized D-cannon do !? pulsars in 40k function almost the same as in gothic , why would a d cannon not ?



I don't mind that either. So how about you play with the Void Stalker Heavy first before you decide Eldar NEEDS, not wants, weapons like those.
[/quote]

Seriously, quite happy with this as a compromise , but as I stated before my intention was to give a bit more 'flavour' but a CWE (5+) stalker variant is good and fluffy enough for me, with the torps it will actually 'BE' a variant.

Regards

M.

Offline horizon

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #91 on: May 25, 2010, 08:43:36 PM »
Leaving the discussion msm vs mms (or equivalent) aside (I do enjoy such things though).... what would a Void Stalker with 5+ armour cost?

When the Void Stalker rules where released in one of the mags it had the option to swap 4 launch bays fr 4 torps at no cost... (yeah right...).

Is your intention launch bays + torps or a swap option like the CWE ships? The Void Stalker model has both systems on the model.


Offline Kraken

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #92 on: May 26, 2010, 12:10:33 AM »
Leaving the discussion msm vs mms (or equivalent) aside (I do enjoy such things though).... what would a Void Stalker with 5+ armour cost?

Well I was thinking 420, the thinking here is that it will technically have 16.66% more hits, but as we know hits do not a whole battleship make, it does not have 16.66 percent more firepower,speed etc so I opted to make it ten percent (rounding up) more expensive so + 40 points ? if it had more firepower (like the Phoenix) I would have said 450 flat

What do you think ?

When the Void Stalker rules where released in one of the mags it had the option to swap 4 launch bays for 4 torps at no cost... (yeah right...).

That always confused me too....

Is your intention launch bays + torps or a swap option like the CWE ships? The Void Stalker model has both systems on the model.

Hmm, my original thoughts on this pretty much ran to just making it a 5+ armour stalker  the the option to swap 8 torps  for 4 bays. this also ties it together with the way the rest of the CWE fleet is chosen ie multiple options on the same hull.


Having both systems on the ship at the same seems a little OTT .

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #93 on: May 26, 2010, 04:36:20 AM »
You did not and I also feel we have reached some kinda happy compromise, however I have to agree with blue dagger somewhat, having never being involved with a forum discussion with you before I did find the 'chip-on-your-shoulder) a little difficult to get past myself....

That chip only comes out when people want an already broken race to be given more weapons to add to it's already broken arsenal.

As usual I still feel that any special weps will not change the power balance one jot......

Yes it will.

I must say sometimes I have felt you have not read or mis-read my posts and subsequently gone off on one, tis good advice for anyone that uses a forum

I miss out on some of the rules but neither have I not read or mis-read your post. Out point of contention stands and there is no misreading there.

Mine is much shorter range than the usual NC.... you said you had read the rules ?

Still one to two turns of shooting. Aside from which your escorting ships can focus on the ships which can attack the battleship. Even if you don't fire the second turn, zip to the enemies rear then. Advantage is still yours.  

My win loss ratio is pretty much identical in 40k with Eldar, which is not considered a broken army, they play very differently from other armies too but no one is trying to re write them into a space marine type list because that is what people are used too....

most of the armies/fleets in either game are tough to beat in the hands of an ace player, believe

So what is it? C'mon. Just state your win loss ratio. And while 40k Eldar may not be broken, maybe with the latest codex, the previous incarnations they were.

A few posts ago you were expounding the power of escort only lists, we all know they are much worse than a stalker list in the right hands, so don't change your tune now just because it suits your stance.....

Of course I was. That doesn't mean that adding the battleship won't bring it's own benefits. I am neither changing my tune as I even pointed out that a VS with escorts can be as bad as all escorts. Re-read my posts a few pages back.

The reason I made it ignore shields was not  to cheese it up, but in fact because that is how D-weps work, there is a precident within existing published games workshop rules for D weps functioning in this manner.

1 crit is no big deal, try having everything being crit on a 4+ all the time

The reason why shields affect NC is because if it didn't it would be broken. Auto crit on top of the other damage you cause? if you rolled a 6 for damage that would come up to around 2 crits. If you're lucky 3. Whish gives you good odds at rolling the 10-12 range. Even if you roll average of 3-4, you can still get 2 crits. Don't knock the crits.

No problems as I said I have already made some effort towards supporting my claims and will report back at some point. I think you are just afraid to be proved wrong  :P

There are plenty of limitations , you just cannot see them .I'm waiting for objective opinions from other people before i play with or against it, im hardly going to be the most un biased judge now am I ??

Sure go ahead. Will wait until then. Remember play with it and against it. And play with good and bad players.


Thats flat out fiction , I have lost games when I have played near perfectly,some people are very good/lucky with their fleets you are also forgetting that the dice can also wreck the best laid plans.

Really? BFG Eldar? You've lost when you played near perfect? Against IN or SM? Tau or Nid? I can understand Necron, I can understand Chaos and Eldar even.

I said 'nearly' , 70  is the best part of 100 so 'nearly'?

The battleship comes out cheaper than the two dragonships. From your post, you made it seem like the reverse. Here si what you said: "2 dragonships can have six pulsars six torps and 4 AC's at present and are faster and have more hits , they will achieve the same result in the scenario you put forth but for nealy 100 less points, they will get away further too."

Yes well it would be a pretty poor BB if it was not ....

Which means your argument for the two Dragonships being better than the Phoenix is wrong.

By you, what gives you the right to put words in the mouth of every single person that plays BFG, most of the people I have shown it so far thinks it is pretty cool, some even said they would enjoy the challange, some people said it would need limiting ie one per fleet and only at 1500 plus. Everyone has at very least been constructive.

By anyone who is concerned with balance. Obviously it's a new thing and people might find it enjoyable at first. Not when they keep on getting blasted while on the receiving end.

Not being funny but I don not loose much , at any of the wargames I play , I have a regular pool of at least 30 opponents and do wargames at least three times a week . I also run the local games club, my win-loss ratio has nothing to do with the fleet I use.

A bad workman ......


yes but what is your particular win/loss ratio using the Eldar fleet compared to the other fleets?

Yes so if a lance = a ship sized lascannon.... what would a ship sized D-cannon do !? pulsars in 40k function almost the same as in gothic , why would a d cannon not ?

Because Gothic is a much more balanced game than 40k. If we could translate every weapon in 40k into BFG without upsetting the balance then that would be great. But I don't want to have to put up with the 40k craziness in BFG. Nova Cannons do not exist in 40k's IG do they? Earthshaker is the closest maybe but the Earthshaker does not have limitation as much as the Nova Cannon. when an Earthshaker hits, only question is the saving throw unlike the NC which has to get through shields first. So just because there is a weapon system in either system does not automatically mean there should be the same weapon in the other. 40k also does not have much in the way of shields unlike in Gothic where shields are first penetrated then armor value next.

Eldar in 40k are also not as bad games-wise compared to Eldar in BFG. I've already gone up against 40k Eldar army with MSM and it was not an enjoyable fight when I couldn't shoot back effectively or get into melee even while the Eldar was slaughtering my army. Luckily, they took this away from the latest Eldar 40k rules if I am not mistaken and which is why my friend who tooled his Eldar to use that particular rule is now just letting his army gather dust.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2010, 04:44:53 AM by Admiral_d_Artagnan »

Offline Kraken

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #94 on: May 26, 2010, 03:31:32 PM »
That chip only comes out when people want an already broken race to be given more weapons to add to it's already broken arsenal.

lol, the arsenal is far from broken, I do not think i have ever come across someone who seems so angry with a particular fleet/army. I dislike Necrons in both systems but for me its just funny or entertaining.

And my chip comes out when gw heap all the love on imperial armies and fleets, thats why IN has a gajillion battleships to choose from don't get me started on Marine codex spam.....


Yes it will.

You don't 'know' currently its just an opinion, your comments on the eldar fleet at large carry more weight as you have played them a fair bit by the sound of things, I notice no one else threw a tantrum ?


I miss out on some of the rules but neither have I not read or mis-read your post. Out point of contention stands and there is no misreading there.

As the rules are the 'contention' missing out on them is kinda fundamental to your position.....

Still one to two turns of shooting. Aside from which your escorting ships can focus on the ships which can attack the battleship. Even if you don't fire the second turn, zip to the enemies rear then. Advantage is still yours. 

Yes , because a good IN player is just gonna let us do that., as eldar ships go it is slooow and even slower if it fires its Lazah / D lance
not likely to be doing much zipping,its more likely to just end up in the middle of your fleet a big fat turkey ready to be plucked ...... read the rules !!!


So what is it? C'mon. Just state your win loss ratio. And while 40k Eldar may not be broken, maybe with the latest codex, the previous incarnations they were.

As I stated earlier I skipped 3rd and 4th ed 40k due to them sucking so I have no idea. I'm not sure my win-loss ratio has any bearing in this conversation.

Of course I was. That doesn't mean that adding the battleship won't bring it's own benefits. I am neither changing my tune as I even pointed out that a VS with escorts can be as bad as all escorts. Re-read my posts a few pages back.

Your implication was that access to a stalker makes them a harder fleet , my point was that infact it makes no difference to the corsair fleet , I honestly think the most OP corsair lists will not contain one.

1 crit is no big deal, try having everything being crit on a 4+ all the time[/color][/quote]

The reason why shields affect NC is because if it didn't it would be broken.

because you can buy multiples....

Auto crit on top of the other damage you cause? Its(probably my fault as the rules are not clear its d6 hits of which ONE is upgraded to an auto crit. so no potential 7 hits , you are very unlikely to get more than 1-2 crits most of the time



Really? BFG Eldar? You've lost when you played near perfect? Against IN or SM? Tau or Nid? I can understand Necron, I can understand Chaos and Eldar even.

yup

I said 'nearly' , 70  is the best part of 100 so 'nearly'?

The battleship comes out cheaper than the two dragonships. From your post, you made it seem like the reverse. Here si what you said: "2 dragonships can have six pulsars six torps and 4 AC's at present and are faster and have more hits , they will achieve the same result in the scenario you put forth but for nealy 100 less points, they will get away further too."

Phoenix ship with special wep upgrade and Raiders is 470 , 2 dragon ships with Raiders is 540 , so yes the dragons cost more , I had the prices the wrong way round in my head apologies .

Yes well it would be a pretty poor BB if it was not  ....

Which means your argument for the two Dragonships being better than the Phoenix is wrong.

As in two 'together' as a pair for roughly the same outlay in points is likely better/more points efficient/flexible

By anyone who is concerned with balance. Obviously it's a new thing and people might find it enjoyable at first. Not when they keep on getting blasted while on the receiving end.

Well if you are to be believed if they are playing against eldar they will be blasted anyway regardless of player skill,luck or any other factors....[/quote]

yes but what is your particular win/loss ratio using the Eldar fleet compared to the other fleets?

I have one 40k army , Eldar I have one BFG fleet now, Eldar. I used to run an IN fleet which I enjoyed and had plenty of success with , thing is I am much better at wargames in general now so it is difficult to compare. I imagine if I had any interest in playing an IN fleet I would be somewhat improved now.


Because Gothic is a much more balanced game than 40k. If we could translate every weapon in 40k into BFG without upsetting the balance then that would be great. But I don't want to have to put up with the 40k craziness in BFG. Nova Cannons do not exist in 40k's IG do they? Earthshaker is the closest maybe but the Earthshaker does not have limitation as much as the Nova Cannon. when an Earthshaker hits, only question is the saving throw unlike the NC which has to get through shields first. So just because there is a weapon system in either system does not automatically mean there should be the same weapon in the other. 40k also does not have much in the way of shields unlike in Gothic where shields are first penetrated then armor value next.

Eldar in 40k are also not as bad games-wise compared to Eldar in BFG. I've already gone up against 40k Eldar army with MSM and it was not an enjoyable fight when I couldn't shoot back effectively or get into melee even while the Eldar was slaughtering my army. Luckily, they took this away from the latest Eldar 40k rules if I am not mistaken and which is why my friend who tooled his Eldar to use that particular rule is now just letting his army gather dust.

[/quote]

There is plenty of background fluff to indicate that the Eldar still occasionally bring out the pre fall Mega weapons, not sure where else you would be able to use them other than on a big ship .......

Actually the earthshaker is much the same if you shoot it at anything without sheilds BOOM! as soon as you shoot it at say a titan or superheavy with shields it becomes a bit meh , the main point being that the all of the gothic weps are in some way based or related to existing tech available to the races in 40k.

Mech eldar do not need MSM in 40k a good player can still run rings around most opponents. I expect the crystal targeting matrix will be back in some form. Eldar can still move twice due to Star engines.

Sounds like you dislike or have trouble playing against ultra mobile lists/armies, you must hate dark eldar !!

Offline horizon

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #95 on: May 26, 2010, 07:03:52 PM »
In BFG we do not hate Dark Eldar. ;)

Well, is the Eldar arsenal broken? I suggest a talking to Xavi at Port Maw haha. (Go to the thread Eldar to the core wraithbones thread, like even more heresy then MMS, or not...).


Offline Kraken

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #96 on: May 26, 2010, 08:31:42 PM »
Err, perhaps that was not very clear , I was referring to DA in 40k not BFG , just to clarify .

Horizon , you asked about points etc on the Voidstalker CWE , I have answered your questions , I was just wondering what you thought ?

Offline horizon

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #97 on: May 26, 2010, 09:57:41 PM »
Heya,

I would have it at armour 5+ and drop the variable fire arcs. At no cost change.

Offline Kraken

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #98 on: May 27, 2010, 01:59:08 AM »
Yeah that works too and further serves to give it some characteristic differences from the CE stalker.

I take it everyone is cool with the torp /bay swap ?

M.

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #99 on: May 31, 2010, 08:44:21 AM »
lol, the arsenal is far from broken, I do not think i have ever come across someone who seems so angry with a particular fleet/army. I dislike Necrons in both systems but for me its just funny or entertaining.

And my chip comes out when gw heap all the love on imperial armies and fleets, thats why IN has a gajillion battleships to choose from don't get me started on Marine codex spam.....

My chip comes from wanting to add more to something which already has a huge advantage already. You dislike Necrons? And what if Necrons got some stuff which are more anti-Eldar? Also, what codex spam?

As for adding more battleships, while it may seem that IN has a gajillion battleships, the Eldar VS can result in almost as much variety as the IN battleships. You just don't have them with distinct name classes. Heck, in the end, all the IN battleships can be reduced to one chassis, name it Terra, and then just modify the weapons, armor, turrets and speed values. The latter 3 are the only difference among the battleships and the one the Eldar battleships do not have. But again, I don't mind if Eldar do get 5+ armor for their battleship for CWE or even CE.

You don't 'know' currently its just an opinion, your comments on the eldar fleet at large carry more weight as you have played them a fair bit by the sound of things, I notice no one else threw a tantrum ?

Just coz no one's throwing a tantrum doesn't mean it's not true. Not everyone reads these boards and if mine is just opinion then so is yours. Let's leave it at that until we get the games in then.

As the rules are the 'contention' missing out on them is kinda fundamental to your position.....

You've missed out and misread some of my rules yourself. So let's leave this issue here then.

Yes , because a good IN player is just gonna let us do that., as eldar ships go it is slooow and even slower if it fires its Lazah / D lance
not likely to be doing much zipping,its more likely to just end up in the middle of your fleet a big fat turkey ready to be plucked ...... read the rules !!!

Oh, yes, IN is slow and a good Eldar player will allow you to do just that. Why would I shoot when I know the ship will be sitting in the middle of the IN fleet? Common sense dictates I do something to avoid that situation. Again, zip past and the IN player won't be able to do much about it. Aside from which, you do have other ships to harass the IN ships.

As I stated earlier I skipped 3rd and 4th ed 40k due to them sucking so I have no idea. I'm not sure my win-loss ratio has any bearing in this conversation.

Of course there is. If you have an excellent win/loss ratio using Eldar compared to other races, that definitely has a bearing.

Your implication was that access to a stalker makes them a harder fleet , my point was that infact it makes no difference to the corsair fleet , I honestly think the most OP corsair lists will not contain one.

That will depend on the playstyle. Some people will be able to use a VS in an escort heavy fleet to good effect, even better than an all escort fleet. Others will prefer all escorts.

because you can buy multiples....

No, even if I took only one, an average roll for a direct hit means a cruiser is crippled. A battleship has 1/3rd of its HP gone. That is why an NC ignoring shields would be broken.

Auto crit on top of the other damage you cause? Its(probably my fault as the rules are not clear its d6 hits of which ONE is upgraded to an auto crit. so no potential 7 hits , you are very unlikely to get more than 1-2 crits most of the time

Unlikely, maybe. Dice are fickle though. Just because it is unlikely, doesn't mean it can't happen. You could get 3 or more on some days and others not. You roll the right crit and yes you can get 7 or more hits in. I've had it happen and so effectively lost my battleship.

Phoenix ship with special wep upgrade and Raiders is 470 , 2 dragon ships with Raiders is 540 , so yes the dragons cost more , I had the prices the wrong way round in my head apologies .

Ok.

As in two 'together' as a pair for roughly the same outlay in points is likely better/more points efficient/flexible

True but then again, you can have the Phoenix and a Dragonship and you would come out better than 2 Dragonships for slightly more cost, wouldn't you?

There is plenty of background fluff to indicate that the Eldar still occasionally bring out the pre fall Mega weapons, not sure where else you would be able to use them other than on a big ship .......

Craftworld most likely.

Actually the earthshaker is much the same if you shoot it at anything without sheilds BOOM! as soon as you shoot it at say a titan or superheavy with shields it becomes a bit meh , the main point being that the all of the gothic weps are in some way based or related to existing tech available to the races in 40k.[/color]

Yes but not all have to be brought to the other game. In a game where Eldar is clearly dominant already, I don't want to see them adding to their arsenal.

Mech eldar do not need MSM in 40k a good player can still run rings around most opponents. I expect the crystal targeting matrix will be back in some form. Eldar can still move twice due to Star engines.

Sounds like you dislike or have trouble playing against ultra mobile lists/armies, you must hate dark eldar !![/color]

Not in BFG. In 40k without the MSM, used by an average player, you can still catch up to the Eldar. Yes, ultra mobile armies which can shoot you and then move out of harms way does leave a bad taste in the mouth. However, with BFG Eldar, I don't see any way of removing MSM to provide the survivability to Eldar. Give them 5+ would make them similar to DE. While that would make sense, it would dilute their flavor. So I don't mind MSM in BFG for now unless they come up with a suitable replacement. I'm still dubious about the previous MMS iterations though Horizon is still in the process of improving on it. Maybe in the future they can come up with one which will feel fair to most parties. Then I might be amenable to adding more weapons like the the ones in the Phoenix to Eldar.      

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #100 on: May 31, 2010, 08:46:26 AM »
Yeah that works too and further serves to give it some characteristic differences from the CE stalker.

I take it everyone is cool with the torp /bay swap ?

M.

Yup, that's ok.

Offline Kraken

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #101 on: June 25, 2010, 05:02:05 AM »
So Ray

Is It likely that the discussed CWE Stalker could be made available via the Faq ?

It's bloody awful not having it in the CWE fleet.

I also dislike being forced to pay 150 points for an admiral with over priced re rolls to get the Flame (which is yet ANOTHER cruiser)

the extra points and re roll premium seems to be offered as some sort of balance to being able to take reserves , except the current reserves rules make  it impossible to get any benefit at all or to take the stalker for CWE ?!

As a corsair player being able to take some CWE cruisers would be cool , however I would have to spend minimum 600 more like 700 points on corsair cruisers to get ONE CWE ship , what is the point  ? you would struggle to get more than one in a 1500 point fleet ,so utterly useless and certainly not worth a 150 point Admiral, not to mention the crazy re-roll prices.

On the other hand , as a CWE player a few corsair escorts would be cool , however to get a squadron of three , I would have to buy 9 of the rubbish CWE escorts @ 360 points

It's a complete joke and a waste of time, is this likely to get rectified ?

As per discussion with Horizon and Admiral re the Stalker, the current agreed suggestion is this:

Make available to CWE only at 1000 +    drop variable fire arcs increase armour to 5+ and give the option for a direct swap of 4 bays for 8 torps.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 11:09:21 AM by Kraken »

Offline RayB HA

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #102 on: June 25, 2010, 10:53:09 PM »
Kraken,

The Hero is dropping in price due to the FAQ.

The Voidstalker won't be added to the CWE in the FAQ most likely. If it were to be added it would be as it is in Armada, with a possible Lb/torp swap.

Cheers,

RayB HA
+++++++++++

When I joined the Corp we didn't have any fancy smancy tanks! We had sticks! Two sticks and a rock for an entire platoon, and we had to share the rock!

Offline Kraken

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #103 on: June 26, 2010, 02:38:11 AM »
Cheers Ray

Dropping the price of the Hero does little to make him particularly attractive as I think as stands you would end up with a crapper fleet using reserves at all , I suppose you just choose one list or the other and take the flame as your flagship .......

I was under the impression Yriels fleet started life as a CWE fleet and picked up a load of corsairs as his fame grew , that kind of fleet is impossible to field .....

Would be disgustingly grateful if even the plain stalker could get a torp swap option and make it in to CWE list.

Thanks

Offline horizon

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #104 on: June 26, 2010, 07:07:22 PM »
I dunno, perhaps it is the story, the background, but even with the overpriced 150pts Hero with maxed out re-rolls on the Flame in a 1500pts fleet has never failed me. At 100pts I am just very happy. Since the Hero is the only way to get the Flame and the Flame is mega awesome (with added raiders soon,kewl).

Also, you could consider taking the Corsairs as parent fleet for the Hero:

Hero
Flame
Void Stalker
2 other (light) cruisers (Aurora I say)
*** now you have 3 cruisers to add a CWE cruiser.
Add Corsair mega escorts (Nightshade/Hemlock).
And for fun some Shadowhunters