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Author Topic: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me  (Read 32082 times)

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Offline Kraken

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #105 on: June 27, 2010, 12:57:16 PM »
I think it would be less crap if it was 2:1 with a pirate princ , the difficulties of coordinating 2 different fleets are well represented by the overcosted re-rolls and with 2:1 it's still very difficult to get many ships , but you might manage more than ONE , I feel it would allow for a much truer pirate prince lead mixed fleet than the current rules allow.

I'm just a bit peeved as I had an idea in my head for a really eclectic and fluffy mixed fleet lead by an eldar hero and it is just impossible , the rules that you would think should allow it / make it work do not work.

 

Offline RayB HA

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #106 on: June 28, 2010, 01:39:55 PM »
Roy,

Keep in mind that you have no wraithships to allow a dragon ship in the CE list and if you bring them in as reserves you'll have reached your cruiser limit! However you could use a wraithship to shield auroras with its greater hits and armour.


Kraken,

The reserves are only token for these fleets, so adding a wraithship here or hemlock there is all you'll get.

However if CWE and CE could have reserves normally a Hero could reduce the ratio from 3:1 to 2:1. (this is being considered, but no promises).

Cheers,

RayB HA
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Offline Kraken

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #107 on: June 28, 2010, 01:48:30 PM »
Yeah, so the reserve rules are utterly fail, I honestly doubt anyone uses them , Horizon seems to be happy just paying a gijillion points to get a slightly better cruiser for his CWE fleet , which is honestly the way I am Headed with mine.

Offline horizon

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #108 on: June 29, 2010, 04:17:57 AM »
Hi Ray,

then reword the Dragonship limitation: not one per two Wraithships, but one per two cruisers.

I use the Hero to get the Flame.

Reserves only if the games get above 1500/1750 to get more ships.
Reserve rules are pretty common in the IN fleets.

Offline RayB HA

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #109 on: June 29, 2010, 01:16:36 PM »
Roy,

The rewording is possible but CE are already super powerful, giving them this bonus but nothing to CWE will mean CE will win out with kick ass cruisers and escorts. CWE are also super powerful, neither need a bonus.

Cheers,

RayB HA

 
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When I joined the Corp we didn't have any fancy smancy tanks! We had sticks! Two sticks and a rock for an entire platoon, and we had to share the rock!

Offline horizon

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #110 on: June 29, 2010, 07:13:19 PM »
Gamewise/playwise I entirely agree on this reserve subject for Eldar.

Fluffwise, especially when using 'Yriel', the rule makes no sense at all. Here gameplay contradicts fluff. Perhaps someone should design a special Yriel's raiders fleet list with a mix of both?

Offline RayB HA

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #111 on: June 30, 2010, 11:17:45 AM »
Well, at what point would you make his fleet list? When he's a CWE Admiral (so just CWE), a CE Pirate with reserve numbered CWE ships (as it is now really) or when he pops back in defence of his CW where it's his CE fleet with CWE reserves and a normal fleet of CWE (which is a ratio of 1:1, but broken ;)).

Cheers,

RayB HA   
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When I joined the Corp we didn't have any fancy smancy tanks! We had sticks! Two sticks and a rock for an entire platoon, and we had to share the rock!

Offline horizon

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #112 on: June 30, 2010, 11:32:56 AM »
This one:
Quote
Prince Yriel
 
Prince YrielPrince Yriel, Autarch of Iyanden, was a brilliant if reckless commander in Iyanden's fleet. He is not of pure Iyanden blood but is honored as one of the greatest defenders of Iyanden. He was originally exiled when he led a successful and pre-emptive attack on a Chaos fleet that left the Craftworld open to attack. He and his crew formed a corsair fleet, the Eldritch Raiders, and had become infamous throughout the galaxy in only a few decades, a testament to Yriel's skill[5].

He and his fleet saved Iyanden at its time of greatest need, at the height of the Tyranid invasion by the Hive Fleet Kraken. As the Craftworld was about to fall, Yriel and his Eldritch Raiders blew a sizeable hole in the Tyranid's fleet and reinforced Iyanden's forces. Yriel himself slew the leader of the hordes, a supposedly invincible creature, with the Spear of Twilight, a cursed artifact that contains the power of a Supernova. Yriel was then instated as an Autarch of Iyanden, and is currently searching for a way to rid himself of the Spear, which is slowly killing him.

Yriel first appeared in early first edition as the "self-styled 'Lord Prince Yriel,'" where it is mentioned that Imperium fostered rivalries between Yriel and other pirate companies resulted in factional fighting; his conquest and absorption of two of these rival groups (Xian's Black Raiders and the Scarlet Command) making him the single most powerful Eldar pirate operating in the galaxy.

Thus Eldritch Raiders. The point is: have other ships/captains departed from Iyanden when Yriel left. That is a vague part.

Offline Kraken

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #113 on: June 30, 2010, 06:53:38 PM »
yup I think most of yriels initial fleet left with him as it states "he lead his followers into exile as a corsair prince"

 Being forced to take a mix would be cool,I do not see how even 1:1 is broken. For each good ship you take you will have to take a worse one , so subsequently you will no longer have the all strong cruisers lists of CWE or evil escort spam of CE , but a mixture of CE and CWE cruisers and likewise you will have as many Failhunters as CE escorts , which IMO balances well enough.

just the 'normal' reserves' rules are awful for representing pirate prince lead fleets , it's impossible to capture the correct 'flavour'....

Ideally what I would like to see is something like this : buy prince, choose parent fleet, buy flagship, this can be any ship from either list (which should allow for the stalker in a CWE list)  possibly buy some stupidly overpriced re-rolls (this is a good mechanic to represent the difficulties of trying to co-ordinate a mixed force) pick fleet as normal from parent list upto 2/3rds of points max (usual restrictions apply) , you may then spend upto 1/3rd of your set points limit on the other fleet list (usual restrictions apply) so 2 wraithships for 1 dragonship etc etc
« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 11:51:19 PM by Kraken »

Offline RayB HA

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #114 on: July 02, 2010, 12:55:47 AM »
Kraken,

Actually you're right 1:1 wouldn't be broken. It deserves further thought.

Cheers,

RayB
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When I joined the Corp we didn't have any fancy smancy tanks! We had sticks! Two sticks and a rock for an entire platoon, and we had to share the rock!

Offline Kraken

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #115 on: July 03, 2010, 01:54:30 AM »
Hi Ray

I'm glad you got what I have been trying to say , I was beginning to think I was mad.

As I said the most broken fleet possible would be made of all CWE cruisers and All CE Escorts, however 1:1 makes that impossible and forces you to mix the fleet it would also mean that you would have to play something like 2k to get more than one Dragonship as you would need one CE cruiser to feild it and two wraithships which of course you would need two CE cruisers to have , so you would actually have to buy 5 other ships per dragonship..... its possible to squeeze 2 into 2k (with no escorts) I think.

I would still prefer a percentage 25-33% to spend freely on reserves, the fleet will look better for it and will make picking/working out a fleet fairly straightforward and even at 1:1 I think it is still too much a two edged sword. 
« Last Edit: July 03, 2010, 01:57:13 AM by Kraken »

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #116 on: October 01, 2010, 01:23:50 PM »
Just to clarify, there is no onus on the CE player to bring Wraithships in order to field Dragonships as reserves. The restriction of 1 DS to 2 WS is a CWE fleet restriction, not a special rule of the DS nor a CE fleet restriction. Therefore a Hero, VS, FoA, 2 Aurorae, 1 DS and as many CE escorts as points allow is a perfectly legal CE list.

Offline RayB HA

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #117 on: November 09, 2010, 12:17:20 AM »
The difference here as apposed to normal fleetlists is the wording of 2 wraithships instead of cruisers.

If Wraithships were termed as cruisers for the Dragonships fleet requirements it would be much easier to take them as reserves.

Cheers,

RayB HA       
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When I joined the Corp we didn't have any fancy smancy tanks! We had sticks! Two sticks and a rock for an entire platoon, and we had to share the rock!

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #118 on: November 10, 2010, 10:35:05 AM »
The difference here as apposed to normal fleetlists is the wording of 2 wraithships instead of cruisers.

If Wraithships were termed as cruisers for the Dragonships fleet requirements it would be much easier to take them as reserves.

Cheers,

RayB HA       

You do not have to obey fleet restrictions of the parent fleet regarding reserves, only fleet restrictions of your current fleet. The CWE fleet restricts Dragonships based on the presence of Wraithships at a specific ratio. The CE fleet list does not. Therefore you do not have to include Wraithships in a CE fleet in order to take Dragonships as reserves. If the restriction were a special rule of the Dragonship then it would have to be observed in any fleet in which it is taken as a reserve.

Offline RayB HA

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Re: Craftworld Eldar and why you hate me
« Reply #119 on: November 12, 2010, 02:56:09 PM »
Ah yes. You're right! In that case, the normal reserve ratio would be okay, as otherwise you've got a super CE list that has its super escorts and uses its Auroras to unlock Dragonships, (squadroning them so the dragon ship can take the brunt with its better armour, the Auroras would still get hit on 4's though).

Cheers,

RayB HA
+++++++++++

When I joined the Corp we didn't have any fancy smancy tanks! We had sticks! Two sticks and a rock for an entire platoon, and we had to share the rock!