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Author Topic: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions  (Read 145988 times)

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Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #75 on: April 27, 2010, 03:41:02 AM »
I think thats a bit much to be honest.
Its already threadening a Eldar player enough that Escorts will "auto-die" when under the template. And btw exactly this makes it not that less likly to hit with a NC, because when shooting at Escorts you can lay the template to hit as many as possible having a 33% chance of destroying all of them. But even if the NC-Roll is a miss its likly that at least one escort is under the template to get the auto hit because even if the template scatters everywhere around the target are escorts as well.

I don't get this. Is every Eldar player really bunching up their squadrons and not maximizing the 15 cm between bases advantage? Really? With a 5 cm diameter template, the NC will only hit at most 1 unless the Eldar players are so nice as to bunch their squadrons close together. Really? This is happening?

I guess as always with the NC in some game it will destroy too much and at some games it sucks. Another random factor as with the bombers that can influence games in a too big degree. Its ok to have some randomness but for some weapon systems its a bit too much for my taste.

A lot of NCs in a game against Eldar will destroy it? In a 1k game if I bring all Dominators, at most I have 5. CE escorts can bring 23 escorts if they have to use an FC. In a 1.5k game, I can bring 7. CE can bring 35 escorts. So how many Eldar can the NC kill before the Eldar overwhelm the Dominators?

Ah but what about the CWE and DE? Sure they have more capital ships. So what I would do is scream past the Dominators soaking in some shots under BFI if I have to and then swing around back and start mauling the Dominator fleet from the rear. Don't tell me it can't be done.

Offline RayB HA

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #76 on: April 27, 2010, 02:53:28 PM »
Trynerror,

BFI was updated in the last print and 2007 FAQ. Enjoy  :)

Space Hulks don't get a Low Orbit table, they're not that big! They're still just stem sized afterall.

Cheers,

RayB HA
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When I joined the Corp we didn't have any fancy smancy tanks! We had sticks! Two sticks and a rock for an entire platoon, and we had to share the rock!

Offline Caine-HoA

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #77 on: April 27, 2010, 05:54:48 PM »
I think thats a bit much to be honest.
Its already threadening a Eldar player enough that Escorts will "auto-die" when under the template. And btw exactly this makes it not that less likly to hit with a NC, because when shooting at Escorts you can lay the template to hit as many as possible having a 33% chance of destroying all of them. But even if the NC-Roll is a miss its likly that at least one escort is under the template to get the auto hit because even if the template scatters everywhere around the target are escorts as well.

I don't get this. Is every Eldar player really bunching up their squadrons and not maximizing the 15 cm between bases advantage? Really? With a 5 cm diameter template, the NC will only hit at most 1 unless the Eldar players are so nice as to bunch their squadrons close together. Really? This is happening?

I guess as always with the NC in some game it will destroy too much and at some games it sucks. Another random factor as with the bombers that can influence games in a too big degree. Its ok to have some randomness but for some weapon systems its a bit too much for my taste.

A lot of NCs in a game against Eldar will destroy it? In a 1k game if I bring all Dominators, at most I have 5. CE escorts can bring 23 escorts if they have to use an FC. In a 1.5k game, I can bring 7. CE can bring 35 escorts. So how many Eldar can the NC kill before the Eldar overwhelm the Dominators?

Ah but what about the CWE and DE? Sure they have more capital ships. So what I would do is scream past the Dominators soaking in some shots under BFI if I have to and then swing around back and start mauling the Dominator fleet from the rear. Don't tell me it can't be done.

1. It depents on the field and phenomena. Sometimes its better so keep a close formation and as you usually have more than one eldar squadron you would nee A LOT space to have them all keep a distance of 15cm. When preparing an attack its better to have the escorts an a line to have the same distance (and be able to guess the distance correctly) for most of them, another point why you cant simply place them all across the field.

2. I didnt say that a lot of NCs will destoy a game vs eldar. I said in some games NCs are stronger and in some weaker. And this range is too big in comparison to other weapon systems. Moreover this was meant as an general issue not only vs eldar.


3. PPL keep talking about getting into the back of a fleet easily. I dont get it as many ships have weapons on their sides that makes only a gap of 90° radius for their "back" in the next round a ship can turn 45° to whatever side it wants. Even if one ship is directly in the back of another it means that there are exactly 45° on each side. If a ship is on the line of two arcs (back and side) the one firing can chose, thus chose side arc.  If the follow up ship is not exactly behind the other ship it simply turns its 45° to the side the following ship is. Effectivly their is no back for most ship types (except those who only fire in front arc, but those often have 90° turn radius).
Now take in account that there are always more than tweo ships on the battlefield its even more impossible to get into the "back" of any of those ships without getting backfire. And we didnt even talk about the space a fleet needs to fly into the back of another without getting into the other fleets range.

Offline Don Gusto

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #78 on: April 27, 2010, 06:18:31 PM »
Nova Cannons and Holofields
Why not generally declare the effects of Nova Cannon template and center as cumulative?
e.g.:
- ships under template suffer one automatic hit (area effect, not safeable by holofields)
- ships under center suffer an additional d6-1 hits (targeted, safeable by holofields)

New stuff with asteroids
Quote
Ships Exploding Inside Asteroid Fields
How asteroid fields affect area effects is currently clarified in the faq2007, page3 - they don't. Why the change? I don't see the need for it.

Quote
Asteroid Shield Impacts: Blast markers are not placed when asteroid impacts take shields down.
But blast markers are the only way to reduce shield strength.
I always played it that blast markers from asteroid impacts are placed at the end of the ships movement, even if that's outside of the field. But I can't find that rule now, don't know where I read it. ???
Anyway shields should either work against asteroids (and be reduced by blast markers) or not.

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #79 on: April 28, 2010, 01:03:31 PM »
1. It depents on the field and phenomena. Sometimes its better so keep a close formation and as you usually have more than one eldar squadron you would nee A LOT space to have them all keep a distance of 15cm. When preparing an attack its better to have the escorts an a line to have the same distance (and be able to guess the distance correctly) for most of them, another point why you cant simply place them all across the field.

The table isn't that small that you will be packing all your ships in one small space, certainly not small enought that a 5 cm template can hit a lot of the. I don't believe the escorts should be in a line to have the same distance. You don't need to guess distance correctly because this FAQ officially allows pre-measuring. So yes, you can simply place them across the field.

2. I didnt say that a lot of NCs will destoy a game vs eldar. I said in some games NCs are stronger and in some weaker. And this range is too big in comparison to other weapon systems. Moreover this was meant as an general issue not only vs eldar.

And with the current NC rules and how they aren't that great, I don't see it as an issue. Sure you can roll hits if you're lucky. What about the times you miss more often than not? The NC as it currently works should be spammed because that's the only way you'll get anything good out of it. Now if they improved it then I wouldn't mind putting in built in limits in the fleet lists. Otherwise, NC away.

3. PPL keep talking about getting into the back of a fleet easily. I dont get it as many ships have weapons on their sides that makes only a gap of 90° radius for their "back" in the next round a ship can turn 45° to whatever side it wants. Even if one ship is directly in the back of another it means that there are exactly 45° on each side. If a ship is on the line of two arcs (back and side) the one firing can chose, thus chose side arc.  If the follow up ship is not exactly behind the other ship it simply turns its 45° to the side the following ship is. Effectivly their is no back for most ship types (except those who only fire in front arc, but those often have 90° turn radius).
Now take in account that there are always more than tweo ships on the battlefield its even more impossible to get into the "back" of any of those ships without getting backfire. And we didnt even talk about the space a fleet needs to fly into the back of another without getting into the other fleets range.

Of course you can easily get into the back arc. Remember that cruisers still have to move 10 cm forwards. So if the Dominators move, fire and then move off chances are the ship won't be able to fire back. If there were some Mars in the fleet sure they can shoot back. Maybe. Assuming the targeted ships did not go into BFI. Trust me, it's easy for Eldar to get into the rear of any opposing fleet bar Eldar. And this is just assuming there are no celestial phenomena like asteroids. If there are, all the more Eldar will screw with the IN fleet. 

Offline RayB HA

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #80 on: April 28, 2010, 03:59:32 PM »
Don Gusto,

Nova Cannons having cumulative damage in the manner (or wording) you described was considered but rejected. I would be up for the rewording but I’d doubt it’ll be more ‘popular’ this time, you never know though.

Ships exploding in asteroid fields is really annoying ruleswise, I saw an easy way out but it will be further considered.

As the shield attacks occur in the movement phase no BM’s are placed in contact with the ship at the end of (after) the movement phase. The ship has already suffered enough, to have its shields down at the end of its movement is a little too harsh.
However the effect of reduced movement (and other BM effects like killing CAP) due to asteroids impacts should be enforced. Thanks for your input.

Cheers,

RayB HA
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When I joined the Corp we didn't have any fancy smancy tanks! We had sticks! Two sticks and a rock for an entire platoon, and we had to share the rock!

Offline fracas

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #81 on: April 29, 2010, 10:38:05 PM »
would like to see BFI changed to command test (like shooting at farther targets or navigating asteroid fields) rather than a special order
to be replaced with a special order for "silent running" type special order.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120681

Offline Don Gusto

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #82 on: April 30, 2010, 07:58:48 PM »
End Phase
When do boarding actions and teleport attacks happen?
Before repairs/blast marker removal or afterwards?

Offline horizon

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #83 on: April 30, 2010, 07:59:54 PM »
Before.

Offline Don Gusto

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #84 on: May 01, 2010, 03:29:02 PM »
As the shield attacks occur in the movement phase no BM’s are placed in contact with the ship at the end of (after) the movement phase. The ship has already suffered enough, to have its shields down at the end of its movement is a little too harsh.
However the effect of reduced movement (and other BM effects like killing CAP) due to asteroids impacts should be enforced. Thanks for your input.
RayB if you handle it this way 4-shield BB's don't have to worry much about asteroids, even on AAF. That's not an effect I would like in the game.

Btw. I found the rule I was refering to. It's in the german rules, 1st and 2nd printing (2nd can be downloaded from gw). The effects section on asteroids includes a last sentence in brackets about placing bm's after movement. Was that rule also in the previous versions of the english rules? (I don't have them)

Offline RayB HA

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #85 on: May 03, 2010, 05:05:51 PM »
Don Gusto,

There was nothing like that in the english version.

Battleships with 4 shields have never been scared of asteroids... Is this necessary? Given the lack of manueverability of a BB there should be a more likley fail though, say BB's always count as if they are on AAF for asteroid tests.

Cheers,

RayB HA 
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Offline Zhukov

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #86 on: May 04, 2010, 10:34:45 PM »
"Shooting at Minefields: Treat minefields as ordnance for purposes of target priority."

What? I totally disagree with the BBB on this. Shouldn't it be considered a defence? Individual mines should be ordnance yes. But mineFIELDS counting as ordnance? No way. When your firing at the minefields your just looking to cause a distraction to the sensors, not aiming at individual mines (according to the fluff that is). I like the armor six to this and i like the Lances needing a six to hit, just not the type on the chart.

And another thing. How are asteroid impacts considered NOT similair to torpedoes or attack craft? What's the reasoning for allowing shields to negate asteroid impacts? Makes no sense to me.

-Zhukov
« Last Edit: May 04, 2010, 10:51:43 PM by Zhukov »
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Offline trynerror

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #87 on: May 04, 2010, 10:38:33 PM »
"for purposes of target priority" has nothing to do with the number you need to hit it ...

Offline Zhukov

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #88 on: May 04, 2010, 10:54:57 PM »
You totally misread my response trynerror. I said I agreed with the needing a six to hit minefields to get the "swirling gas" effect that reduces their ability to detect is something I agreed on but it was the counting them as ordnance on the gunnery chart. And for that matter, what does it mean by "target priority"? I may be misunderstanding something here.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 11:20:10 PM by Zhukov »
I am Zukov's Klaw.

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Offline trynerror

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #89 on: May 05, 2010, 11:06:10 AM »
Target priority is at what targetyou have to fire  (= the nearest) and you have to test if you want to fire at any other target. For this purpose you can ignore ordnance (and, regarding to the quote, minefields).

I understand your response, but it has nothing to do with the quoted sentence  ;D