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Author Topic: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions  (Read 145518 times)

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Offline Dan_Lee

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #285 on: August 19, 2010, 12:17:19 PM »
When you take a critical hit and you cannot apply it the rules say to take the next highest result. Is that the next numerically highest result, or the result higher up on the table?

e.g. you roll a 5 to damage the prow weapons, but you targeted a grandcruiser with no prow weapons so the result is irrelevant. Does it count as a 6 (the next numerically higher result), or port armament damage (which is above prow armament damaged on the table)?
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Offline Vaaish

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #286 on: August 19, 2010, 02:12:39 PM »
higher result numerically which is also the higher result (more damaging) on the table. It goes from lowest to highest. The note under the table on the BBB has your exact example and pretty clearly shows it would be engine room.
-Vaaish

Offline russ_c

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #287 on: August 20, 2010, 05:31:51 AM »
higher result numerically which is also the higher result (more damaging) on the table. It goes from lowest to highest. The note under the table on the BBB has your exact example and pretty clearly shows it would be engine room.

Yes, except in Dan's specific example of it being a grand cruiser the new FAQ (page 23 of the draft) has ruled that prow critical's are completely ignored for whatever reason.  So you won't move up the chart; You simply don't take any critical damage.  ??? Why this is a necessary exception is beyond me.

Russ

Offline horizon

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #288 on: August 20, 2010, 06:19:46 AM »
Nate explained this on the yahoo group.
Deliberate.

I mean, there is still a prow to take damage even if nothing is there.

It is also a trade-off: Grand Cruisers without a prow weapon cannot take Exterminatus weapon.

I disagree with that by the way.

Offline Dan_Lee

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #289 on: August 20, 2010, 11:32:39 AM »
Sorry I forgot about the example under the table in the rulebook. It's so rare to get a game in I often forget what issues have come up before and if they've already been clarified.

I know my choice of example was poor now. I found the draft FAQ thread only minutes after posting, but I'd never expected such a unique (an quite random in my opinion) exclusion to be introduced. Every ship has a prow, dorsal area, keel, etc. regardless of whether any weapons are there are not. If the GC's are going to get to ignore prow criticals then there is no reason not to grant every ship such exceptions.
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Offline horizon

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #290 on: August 20, 2010, 12:00:28 PM »
But now it does not ignore prow criticals!

Offline Vaaish

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #291 on: August 20, 2010, 04:54:53 PM »
Quote
Every ship has a prow, dorsal area, keel, etc. regardless of whether any weapons are there are not. If the GC's are going to get to ignore prow criticals then there is no reason not to grant every ship such exceptions.

I was rather surprised by the inclusion myself since I've never seen anything mentioned about grand cruisers being problematic and I've used them pretty extensively. However, despite all ships having those areas, the Vengeance and its variants are unique in that they are the only capital ships that do not mount any form of prow weapons which means they have a particular vulnerability to AB that no other capital ship has. While we shorten the name to prow criticals, it's actually a prow armament critical. Since all other captical ships have prow weapons, the same issue does not exist with them and doesn't necessitate the expansion of the changes to all other ships.
-Vaaish

Offline flybywire-E2C

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #292 on: August 21, 2010, 06:04:57 PM »
higher result numerically which is also the higher result (more damaging) on the table. It goes from lowest to highest. The note under the table on the BBB has your exact example and pretty clearly shows it would be engine room.

Yes, except in Dan's specific example of it being a grand cruiser the new FAQ (page 23 of the draft) has ruled that prow critical's are completely ignored for whatever reason.  So you won't move up the chart; You simply don't take any critical damage.  ??? Why this is a necessary exception is beyond me.

Russ

Here's why we did it. The Vengeance G Cis the only capital ship in the entire game from ANY fleet that doesn't have a prow weapon. What that means is that the ship now goes from a 1/6 chance of getting an Engine Room crit against attack craft to a 1/3 chance. Savvy players have figured this out and learned an easy way to really hurt this thing is to swamp it with assault boats.

One would think the easy fix is to simply give the Vengeance GC’s a prow weapon. However, the ship is used by both Imps and Chaos. What do we give it, and how much should it cost? This very quickly became a much thornier issue than we anticipated, which would have involved much more playtesting than we had an ability to commit to. The much easier fix was to make the enormous but otherwise impotent prow on this model good for something against assault boats to bring the model back into congruence with all the other capital ships in the game, hence the rule.
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Offline horizon

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #293 on: August 21, 2010, 06:51:16 PM »
Vengeance only one?

Ehm... Excorsist, Avenger and the other (incl chaos variant) Grand Cruisers....  ;).
Repulsive is only CG with a prow weapon. Rest does not have one.




Offline russ_c

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #294 on: August 21, 2010, 11:16:15 PM »
Quote
Yes, except in Dan's specific example of it being a grand cruiser the new FAQ (page 23 of the draft) has ruled that prow critical's are completely ignored for whatever reason.  So you won't move up the chart; You simply don't take any critical damage.  ??? Why this is a necessary exception is beyond me.

Russ

Here's why we did it. The Vengeance G Cis the only capital ship in the entire game from ANY fleet that doesn't have a prow weapon. What that means is that the ship now goes from a 1/6 chance of getting an Engine Room crit against attack craft to a 1/3 chance. Savvy players have figured this out and learned an easy way to really hurt this thing is to swamp it with assault boats.

One would think the easy fix is to simply give the Vengeance GC’s a prow weapon. However, the ship is used by both Imps and Chaos. What do we give it, and how much should it cost? This very quickly became a much thornier issue than we anticipated, which would have involved much more playtesting than we had an ability to commit to. The much easier fix was to make the enormous but otherwise impotent prow on this model good for something against assault boats to bring the model back into congruence with all the other capital ships in the game, hence the rule.


A fair explanation.  I can see this as a note in the Graybox of all GC's (except Repulsive of course) that says they are immune to Prow Criticals.  Thanks!
« Last Edit: August 22, 2010, 07:57:57 AM by russ_c »

Offline Vaaish

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #295 on: August 22, 2010, 02:06:23 AM »
sorry horizon, I meant the grand cruisers collectively based on the vengeance hull not just the vengeance itself.
-Vaaish

Offline RayB HA

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #296 on: August 25, 2010, 03:39:37 AM »
Hi Guys,

I’ve been a little busy recently and haven’t managed to pop by often. I should be back to normal by Monday or Tuesday (having just realised Monday is a bank holiday!).

Russ c,
Thanks for highlighting the torps hitting stacked ships of the same size situation.
The Torp base ‘should’ be 2cm by 2cm! The 2 torps should be based on a small warhammer base.

Roy,
What’s wrong with torps from a squadron in base contact? What does it matter about base size? The torps should just sail by.

Gron,
The Smotherman formula is quite terrible really. When calculating the value of a ship you really only have to consider how much damage will the ship cause. Its manoeuvrability, the amount of damage it can take and any special rules it has all affect this. Some components, like hits, can effect this exponentially (meaning a ship with twice the amount of hits will last twice as long against the same opponent), however there are exceptions like if a ship will usually be over-killed and therefore a few extra hits aren’t really that useful. Anyway, before I rant anymore, no- a points system is a pretty bad idea to throw out there as official rules!

Dan Lee,
For the purposes of multipliers, boarding values do not include turret strength.
If a critical has to be ‘upped’ it is higher numerically. 


The Prow Crit sponge is only on the Vengeance and its variants.
Cheers,

RayB HA     
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When I joined the Corp we didn't have any fancy smancy tanks! We had sticks! Two sticks and a rock for an entire platoon, and we had to share the rock!

Offline horizon

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #297 on: August 25, 2010, 04:00:40 AM »
Ray,
I don't know what I said....

Offline RayB HA

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #298 on: August 25, 2010, 04:18:10 AM »
stacked ships fire torps individual. Yes. But what when these are in a squadron? Example: Repulsive with big base and Repulsive with small base. :)

Hi Roy,

What's the beef?  ;)

Cheers,

RayB
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Offline horizon

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Re: BFG FAQ 2010 General Rules Questions
« Reply #299 on: August 25, 2010, 04:48:50 AM »
That the small base would hit the large base first. ;)