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Author Topic: Grog's Guide to BFG 2.0; part 2, the Forces of Chaos  (Read 8168 times)

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Offline Zelnik

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Grog's Guide to BFG 2.0; part 2, the Forces of Chaos
« on: May 05, 2011, 06:30:40 PM »

Chaos

The flipside to the imperial navy, the forces of chaos rely more on speed, range and firepower, sacrificing flexibility and durability for a better chance at causing more damage. All chaos vessels are cheaper then their imperial counterparts, and they have access to (on average) more firepower per points spent.  Chaos fleets work best as a swarm of independant vessles (with a few acceptions) and should only be squadroned rarely.  Chaos escorts are more powerful then their imperial counterparts, but cost more as a result. there are a HUGE number of chaos battleships, along with demon ship and chaos space marine upgrades.  

Battleships: Chaos battleships tend to function more like traditional battleships, serving more then one purpose and having more then just one established way of destroying the enemy. They tend to either be blindingly fast, or astonishingly powerful at the cost of armor or high turret values. the high points costs here make up for the low points cost elsewhere.

Despoiler battleship: The analogue for the Emperor, and easily the better ship. While it does not have the leadership upgrade the Emperor does, it is significantly better armed, comes with assault boats standard, is faster and can be upgraded with torpedos. When the torpedo upgrade is taken, it becomes a "super Dictator" and becomes a terrible force to be reconed with,
Pros: Great firepower, torpedo upgrade, good speed.
cons: 5+ armor, expensive

Desolator: I Love this ship.  It seems underpowered for a battleship, but its amazing speed allows it to do what no other battleship can, which is keep up with the rest of the fleet on the frontal assault.  Its primary weapon is its huge torpedo salvo, and its long range lances and batteries as secondary.  A master will use this alongside acherons, devistations or murders for maximum mayhem.
Pros: FAST!!! CHEAP!!!
Cons: weak armament on port, starboard and dorsal weapons.

The Planet Killer: many people mistake this for a character vessel. It is not, you do not need to take Abbadon with this ship!!! Coming in as number 2 in the top ten battleships, this thing is a nightmare incarnate. Equipped with the best exterminatus weapon in the game, FLR torpedos, 14 hits and 20cm speed, I am shocked I don't see this more often.  The 505 Point cost is certainly a deterrent, but it is more then capable of earning its points back.  Also, the mini is actually gorgeous, the picture on the gw website does not do it justice.
Pros:got gun? have more gun! FLR torpedos, 20cm speed, 14 hits
cons: expensive.

**forces of chaos battleships**

Scion of Prospero: If you like tzeench, this is your ship.  effectively the mirror image of the terminus est, same launch capacity and equivilent firepower. The free re-roll is a nice touch, just don't fail it.  just recognize that it is a large points commitment.
Pros: good armament, decent range.
Cons: expensive, special rules can backfire on you.

Wages of Sin: Probably the best of the new battleships. It shares all of the stats of a desolator, with the added benefit of LC6. for 430 points, along with a free mark of slaanesh and chaos space marines. Overall, its a phenominal vessel and well worth its points
Pros: Very punchy, "Super Dictator" Fast and powerful
cons: expensive

Terminus Est: Not as specacular by comparison as it used to be, now that the other godly ships have been released. Still, for a plaguefleet, it is an essential piece of the puzzle.  It suffers from vulnerability to torpedos, since its turrets cannot shoot them down, but compensates for LC9.  it has the 4 lances in the prow instead of the torpedo upgrade, making it a vessel designed to assault the enemy in close range.
Pros: 13 hits, LC9, 430 point package
cons: vulnerable to torpedos, expensive.

Conqueror: the other amazing battleship of the new rules. Have you ever wondered what happens when you give a slaughter cruiser steroids?  You get this bad boy. Designed to break things over its knee.  Overwhelming firepower, it is the only other vessel capable of throwing a st20 battery by itself other then the tomb ship.  It is also very cheap for its benefits, since it comes with berserkers and MoK for free.
Pros: GUN GUN GUN!
Cons: short range.


Vengeful Spirit: This is basically a re-design of the Despoiler. you spend 10 points to spread the launch capacity out across the port, starboard and prow sections, and access its upgrades. It can be used as a venerable barge, take space marines and torpedoes. If you have the spare points, go ahead and take it, though it has little difference from its Despoiler counterpart.
Pros: more upgrades then the despoiler
cons: effectively the same stats as a despoiler.

Grand Cruisers: Chaos Grand Cruisers are very different then their imperial counterparts. These ships are designed to destroy other vessels by themselves and typically require no squadroned support. this is partially because the vessels have very strict deployment requirements compared to their imperial counterparts.

Vengence: see imperial navy

Repulsive: This vessel is the best damn ship in the game. even at base cost of 230, it is brutal. taking the ten point upgrade to increase its dorsal lance range is always a good idea, and the new 15 point shield option firmly places this ship in the "best ship for its points" category.  This should always be considered a replacement for a battleship.  With the right marks and full upgrades, this becomes almost as tough as a battleship, with equivilent firepower, for one third less the cost. They are slow for a chaos ship, but have the firepower to make it up.
Pros: everything
Cons: a little slow.

Executor: This is a 210 point answer to the Apocalypse battleship. it has six lances either side. that is all.
Pros: six lances port and starboard, 210 points.
cons:that is all it has.

Retaliator: many people wonder where this ship is supposed to fit in. Its armament is not very significant, its engine rules are strange and it only has LC 4.  Allow me to share with you the epiphany I came upon.  Khorne berserkers.  Giving this vessel space marines and the mark of khorne turns this vessel into a heavy blitzer, going AAF and launching its assault boats (even more if your taking the berserker fleet), bracing for the incoming fire as necessary, then boarding the moment you have the opportunity.  Aside from that, its a durable carrier platform that doesn't wither easily under fire.

Heavy Cruisers: unlike the imperial navy, Chaos heavy cruisers tend to take a support role, supplimenting the firepower of the rest of the fleet instead of being individual forces to be reckoned with. Their greatest advantage is range and lance content, and they tend to be extremely cheap for what you get.  

Styx: Now only 260 points, this vessel is a support carrier. Designed to hang back with Devistations and fire long ranged weapons at the enemy while launching punishing waves of assault boats and bombers. now it is a far more viable option with the points reduction as well
Pros: long range firepower, good launch capacity.
cons: not a lot to shoot.

Hades: If the murder is the Chaos Boyscout, this is its mean burley scout leader.  Designed to work seamlessly with a murder squadmate, this thing is a beast, throwing 4 lances out its prow 60cm.  It is also dirt cheap at 200 points.
Pros: Drill in space.
Cons: same weaknesses as the murder, only less so (see below)

Acheron: Consider this badboy an artillary cruiser. long range heavy firepower, but weak in a close in fight. If you keep this guy with your carriers to support your close in combatents like slaughters or carnages, it will prove invaluable, especially at its low cost.  
Pros: cheap, great range, superb firepower out one arc.
Cons: not effective in a close range fight.

Hecate: This vessel is inspired. I am willing to admit it now. This vessel makes up for the lack of firepower in the Styx, and the lack of versatility in the Acheron.  For its cost (230), it is a very sturdy combat carrier, able to do what no other chaos carrier cruiser can do, which is hold its own in a fight.  It is a worthy addition to the fleet, and is on equal footing with all the other Heavy Cruisers.
Pros: launch capacity and the broadside strength of a hades.
cons: only effective fire out of one arc.

Cruisers: Chaos cruisers are where the real muscle of the fleet is to be found. Hugely powerful in their own right, fast and flexible in their use. they pay for this with weak armor and a slightly steeper learning curve then their imperial counterparts.

Murder: The counterpart to the Lunar, this vessel is the quintessential drill in space. with two long range lances that can reach out and hit something on turn 1, and a good broaside battery, these ships are very well priced for their power. Since their prow armament is only Front facing, they tend to be outstripped by their sister vessels... until you squadron them in a set of two. This is the only ship I would recommend squadroning with either another murder or a hades.  Together they become a massive obstical to overcome, their prow weapons can cripple light cruisers and their broadsides can crush anything foolish enough to fall in arc. The alternate setup is only effective if squadroned with another murder.
Pros: all around good craft for 170 points
cons: weaponry is fixed to arc.

Carnage: I personally never use these craft. Sure they have amazing range, and incredible firepower, but all they have is weapons batteries. At its range, the chances of getting a really good slavo off is small, and a lot of things in the game have 6+ armor.  it is also expensive when you can purchase a faster, more heavily armed vessel for 25 points cheaper.
Pros: great power and range
cons:ONLY has batteries, one trick pony.

Slaughter: Live fast, die wide. Cheap, absurdly powerful, and FAST FAST FAAAST!, spamming these is similar to spamming nova cannons in an imperial navy list. I used 4 in my tournament list and I won 2 out of 3 games.
pros: everything! its a great vessel! Maybe too great.
Cons: short range.

Devistation: This is your standard carrier, and sets the standard for cheap and powerful. Great range, great launch options and fantastic speed. It is not the BEST carrier, nor is it the best SHIP in the game, but it is damn good.  Use a pair with a styx to lay down some nasty long range punishment, or have an Acheron fly along with them to provide cover.
Pros:great range, good speed, assault boats.
cons:not many, aside from it's 5+ armor.

Inferno: this is effectively the alternate murder setup with a prow weapons battery instead of the prow lances. This vessel qualifies for squadron status by its weapon strengths on all sides. I can see this vessel becoming a powerful squadron friendly ship, I just have never used it.
pros: flexible vessel
cons: firepower is too spread out to be effective in all arcs without sqaudroning

Escorts

Idolator: this 45 point monster is Chaos' answer to the firestorm. Faster, stronger, better. also more expensive.  I use them, I don't know why everyone else doesn't... maybe its because they would rather spend points on the slaughter. the long range rules are useful too for the initial alpha strike.
Pros: good range, powerful armament, ignores range modifiers.
Cons: expensive

Infadel: Chaos' answer to the cobra, and is better on all fronts. it lacks the valuable second turret, but you still have a torpedo platform that the fleet lacks.
Pros: torepdos, 40points, fast and well armored.
cons:1 turret

Iconoclast: a cheap little points filler. quick, with a marginal weapons battery. Some love it, some hate it.  Its a cobra analogue, with weak armor.  Do not underestimate them though, they are fast, and can really ruin an eldar or ork players day.
pros: cheap as dirt
Cons:equipped with dirt.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 08:51:45 PM by Zelnik »

Offline Zelnik

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Re: Grog's Guide to BFG 2.0; part 2, the Forces of Chaos
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2011, 06:44:16 PM »

Tactics: The yin to the imperial navy's yang.  Chaos is designed for speed, firepower and not much else.

Unlike the navy, their cruisers fare extremely well in independant combat roles, giving each ship a very individual feel.  Don't be surprised if you find yourself upset that your favorite slaughter just got one-shot-crippled by a nova cannon. 

Typically, Chaos tactics favors the flanker and long range player.  The more you actually get close to the enemy, the more likely you will start taking damage. This may seem odd, since one of your best cruisers is designed for close range mayhem.  Unlike the imperial navy that must work together as a whole, Chaos tends to work better in small groups.

For example, I typically have two to three groups. One group is the blitzers, moving directly at the enemy and pounding them with long range lances (done by a murder-hades-murder group), while another group functions as long range artillary, moving paralelle to the long table edge and launching bombers, assault boats and long range lances.  The third group is usually my command ship, in the form of a battleship or Repulsive grand cruiser, who is tough enough to take a beating and still keep ticking. 

Another example of this is using slaughters as your blitzers, acherons as your artillary, and a despoiler as your command ship.  If you can answer the following questions: "Who is my blitzer/artillary/command" you are in a really good position.

Here is how I break down the ships as blitzer/artillary/command.

Blitzers:
Murder
Hades
Slaughter
Inferno
Carnage (sort of)
Infadel
Idolator
Execution
Retaliator

Artillary:
Acheron
Hecate
Devistation
Carnage

Command:
Any battleship
Repulsive
Styx


Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Grog's Guide to BFG 2.0; part 2, the Forces of Chaos
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2011, 08:26:38 PM »

@Zelnik

It's Executor class CG, not Execution class. Also, try using the word than upon occasion.


@Others

Please ignore this "guide".

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: Grog's Guide to BFG 2.0; part 2, the Forces of Chaos
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2011, 08:28:48 PM »
Also, how far away does your artillery batch stay away from your blitzers generally?
I'm not really sure how this divide in your fleet works (being not as familiar with some Chaos ships). Do you have your MMH and escorts heading towards the enemy and swing your artillery out around the enemy  and try to pincer them with both groups? I'm going to start trying out MMH instead of the Carnage/Acheron groups.

@Sigoroth
...Nah.

Edit: missed the Idolator and Infidel in the blitzers.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 12:09:35 AM by afterimagedan »

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Grog's Guide to BFG 2.0; part 2, the Forces of Chaos
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2011, 09:24:18 PM »

Offline Zelnik

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Re: Grog's Guide to BFG 2.0; part 2, the Forces of Chaos
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2011, 09:35:42 PM »
Oh thank you lord Sigoroth, high lord and master of grammar and all things typed.

Instead of being a dick, maybe you should provide arguments against my ideas... you know... promote discussion.

Offline Zelnik

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Re: Grog's Guide to BFG 2.0; part 2, the Forces of Chaos
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2011, 09:38:22 PM »
Which category would you put the different escorts? I assume Blitzers off the bat but I'm curious what you think on this.

Also, how far away does your artillery batch stay away from your blitzers generally?
I'm not really sure how this divide in your fleet works (being not as familiar with some Chaos ships). Do you have your MMH and escorts heading towards the enemy and swing your artillery out around the enemy  and try to pincer them with both groups? I'm going to start trying out MMH instead of the Carnage/Acheron groups.

@Sigoroth
...Nah.

I usually have artillery at a 45 degree angle to the table edge, moving their guns in at the desired target of choice, once i am in ideal range, I move parallel to the table  and close no further, letting them come to me.

Offline zaxqua

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Re: Grog's Guide to BFG 2.0; part 2, the Forces of Chaos
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2011, 09:57:04 PM »
Where do you get the BFG 2.0 rules? And there are some ships on that list I don't recognize, I'm assuming they are introduced the new rules.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: Grog's Guide to BFG 2.0; part 2, the Forces of Chaos
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2011, 10:31:57 PM »
@Sigoroth
Honestly, I would love to see your crack at a guide. It would be nice to have a different perspective.

Offline horizon

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Re: Grog's Guide to BFG 2.0; part 2, the Forces of Chaos
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2011, 06:45:03 AM »
Zwaqua, these are from the FAQ/drafts 2010.
Check the profile of flybywire and click on the tinyurl in his signature.


Sigoroth has an Imperial fleet guide (on v1.0) in Warp Rift 11. So with Retribution at 365.

He also promised me a Chaos (and more guide), once long ago in a forgotten time.

Offline Phthisis

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Re: Grog's Guide to BFG 2.0; part 2, the Forces of Chaos
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2011, 08:22:46 PM »
Missed the Devestation, there.  Although probably a good idea because you'll get flamed unless you say its the best ship ever.

Offline scar face

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Re: Grog's Guide to BFG 2.0; part 2, the Forces of Chaos
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2011, 10:12:32 AM »
Others

Please ignore this "guide

No. I quite like it actually.



Obvious troll is obvious, much?


scar

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Grog's Guide to BFG 2.0; part 2, the Forces of Chaos
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2011, 03:06:45 PM »
No. I quite like it actually.



Obvious troll is obvious, much?


scar

No, not trolling. Sincerely and succinctly giving my recommendation to new players.

Offline scar face

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Re: Grog's Guide to BFG 2.0; part 2, the Forces of Chaos
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2011, 04:21:43 PM »
What way do you think your post is giving sufficient recommendation? You haven't even given a desription on why it's a bad guide.....

scar

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Grog's Guide to BFG 2.0; part 2, the Forces of Chaos
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2011, 04:31:19 PM »
What way do you think your post is giving sufficient recommendation? You haven't even given a desription on why it's a bad guide.....

scar

I cannot speak to the "sufficiency" of the recommendation, merely that it is my recommendation. Take it or leave it.