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Author Topic: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG  (Read 114095 times)

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Offline horizon

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #690 on: January 15, 2011, 08:32:24 PM »
Custodian has a Prow Deflector.

Being crippled and a bm and turning.

There are battleships who cannot turn with a bm in contact, let alone crippled. ;)

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #691 on: January 15, 2011, 09:27:41 PM »
Much more imporant on foward firing BB though ;)

I know it has a prow deflector, I just meant that originally it was 330, then got a prow deflector at no additional cost.  Which was awesome, but you think it shouldn't go up with CG status as well?

Offline Vaaish

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #692 on: January 15, 2011, 10:25:52 PM »
Quote
was referring to blast marker and crippled.
Then say that. Saying it's not able to turn when crippled is completely different than can't turn when crippled and has a BM. As horizon said, there are plenty of other ships that can't turn with a BM let alone being crippled. The emperor, Apocalypse, and Oberon are good examples. You can't have your cake and eat it too regardless of it being more important to turn with a forward facing BB. There has to be SOME penalty for getting hurt or taking fire you can't just ignore everything because you have the best firepower when you get something in the forward arc. Take the hit, use burn retros if you must, but if your crippled you've got more thing to worry about than turning without it costing something.
-Vaaish

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #693 on: January 16, 2011, 05:49:31 AM »
The key point you need to realize is that a forward firing ship suffers much more dramatically from not being able to turn.

Offline Vaaish

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #694 on: January 16, 2011, 06:37:33 AM »
You need to realize the forward arc is just the OPTIMAL firing solution for the custodian, it isn't the ONLY direction it can engage from. Yes it will suffer, but it also has much greater benefit when it is not crippled. If it moved 15cm you might have a point, but you are trying to tell me the performance of the ship in the crippled state with a BM outweighs the tactical capability in speed, maneuverability, and durability it would have to position itself in such a way that crippling it would be far more difficult to accomplish in the first place.

The fact remains that although the ship wouldn't perform as well once crippled and still under fire (no surprise there, I mean you could almost say such a situation would be.... crippling), it will perform MUCH better in all other circumstances.
-Vaaish

Offline horizon

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #695 on: January 16, 2011, 09:05:05 AM »
Agreed. The Custodian will be prow on. Where its firepower is.

And you can do still a Burn Retros if you are desperate for a turn.

And also: if my Custodian reached the crippling status I am seriously thinking for a disemgage anyway.

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #696 on: January 16, 2011, 10:32:51 PM »
But you do feel like CG status and prow deflector isnt worth a points increase?

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #697 on: January 16, 2011, 10:59:55 PM »
Got to play a 1000 kororvesh game against IN.  My initial thoughts were 'I wish I had taken the Protector variant' and 'Man, I really love Tau torpedoes.

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #698 on: January 17, 2011, 12:20:52 PM »
Then say that. Saying it's not able to turn when crippled is completely different than can't turn when crippled and has a BM. As horizon said, there are plenty of other ships that can't turn with a BM let alone being crippled. The emperor, Apocalypse, and Oberon are good examples. You can't have your cake and eat it too regardless of it being more important to turn with a forward facing BB. There has to be SOME penalty for getting hurt or taking fire you can't just ignore everything because you have the best firepower when you get something in the forward arc. Take the hit, use burn retros if you must, but if your crippled you've got more thing to worry about than turning without it costing something.

All those IN ships you listed don't give a rats arse about not being able to turn with a BM or being crippled. Hell, the Retribution doesn't even care for the most part. The Custodian does. Now, I don't think the Tau should get special treatment just because they suffer more than other BBs. On the other hand I don't think they should be unfairly punished either. This is exactly what is going on. "Well, you're only going to be the size of a CG, with the firepower and shields of a CG, but you're going to turn like a BB". What? Why? They have parity with the IN, their fleet is based on agility and their ship suffers more for the lack, so they want the agility more. Presumably this is why they only made the Custodian CG sized, so they actually could turn it better. I know I know, you're just arguing against 90 turns, which is fair nuff, since it's OTT. Just annoyed that the Nobs decided against CG status, despite it being extraordinarily obviously apt.

Oh, btw, you know that a gravity well only gives 45 turns right? And only towards the planet, so you can't swing past the line of the planet to be turning away. So for a 90 Custodian to get a 180 turn it would have to begin and end its movement in the gravity well, and for it to be a true 180, rather than just 178 or 179 ( :P) then it'd have to not move at all, meaning it counts as a defence.
 

Offline Vaaish

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #699 on: January 17, 2011, 03:22:49 PM »
Sig, I agree the thing is a CG but at this point a change like that is beyond us. On the turn. Mathematically it's not a true 180` turn, but the free turn + the regular 90` nets you 135` and your forward arc will extend 22.5` left and right of centerline which means it's 157.5`effective turn since it still places the target back in the forward arc by the time the target moves in its turn. The whole point was that giving a ship 90' turns improves its capabilities far more than just giving it CG status and should be a considerable boost in points.
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Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #700 on: January 17, 2011, 07:02:48 PM »
Not really, but as i see the reasonable nature of both sides, and you are zealous about yours, I'll just play it as a CG ;)

Offline Vaaish

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #701 on: January 17, 2011, 08:28:33 PM »
CG is by far the more appropriate direction, but I can't really say anything if you really think 90` turns are just as reasonable as cg status on a ship that large that doesn't belong to eldar or crons.
-Vaaish

Offline horizon

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #702 on: January 17, 2011, 08:32:53 PM »
Distant Darkness provides a CG variant for the Custodian. ;)

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #703 on: January 18, 2011, 04:12:58 AM »
Crons have a 90* turn big ship?  Even the shroud has 45* turns at 4 hits, on the online pdf, which is hilariously stupid :)

I don't get the lack of tech like 60cm on the most advanced races, other than balance i guess.


Ok.  So something i just noticed.  Where is the stronghold in the Kororvesh list?

Edit:  Apparently the citadel is a new ship.  My bad.  how do you model one?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 04:17:41 AM by lastspartacus »

Offline horizon

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Re: Tau Kor'or'vesh Commerce Protection Fleet draft rules for BFG
« Reply #704 on: January 18, 2011, 04:16:14 AM »
Necron AAF is more turns aka 90*. ;)