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Games Archive => [GA] xxxQuest => Topic started by: cjbennett22 on September 09, 2015, 04:24:25 PM

Title: stretch of an idea
Post by: cjbennett22 on September 09, 2015, 04:24:25 PM
I never played heroquest, never watched it played or anything at all.  Too young.

I was looking up old D&D board games as I have one of those and it is very simple to play just like I image heroquest is.

My idea is, can or has anyone ever integrated hero quest with a mighty empire campaign for either warhammer or warmaster?

Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: Irisado on September 09, 2015, 06:33:43 PM
I haven't done it, I am convinced it can be done :).

If you're going to play Heroquest, I'd recommend using Advanced Heroquest rules.  This is easy to do, and I'm happy to explain if you're interested.  Heroquest is a great game, but it's too easy for the heroes to win, so using Advanced Heroquest rules makes it far more challenging and balanced.
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: cjbennett22 on September 10, 2015, 12:58:35 AM
looking on ebay, the advanced hero quest game seems to be going for a pretty penny  :(
the regular hero quest with the board map is still kinda high but doable on prices.

would you suggest just the rules for the advanced?  I found a website, ye-old inn that seems to have everything for the regular hero quest game as well.  a lot of the quests all compiled into pdf's.  You can explain away on the game rules  :)

If I did add this to the campaign it would probably take a year to play out in full.  At the least though I am hoping for a basic party game for adults to mess around with that would be stupid easy to play.  The fact that you said it's too easy for the heroes to win makes me think it would be very do-able to integrate into the campaign as I was afraid too many heroes would die trying to get a few extra coins in their realm's pocket or something.

Thank you for your help!
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: Irisado on September 10, 2015, 06:03:17 AM
You can play Heroquest with Advanced Heroquest rules using the Heroquest board, and you get a much more di diverse set of monster models with Heroquest, so I would suggest that you purchase that.  If you need the rules for Advanced Heroquest, and can't find them anyway, send me a PM between 15th-22nd September, as I can help you out with that during that week.

When I say that Heroquest really is too easy for the heroes, it's way too easy.  Monsters only have a one in six chance of successfully saving themselves from death, and apart from the Ogres in the Ogre horde supplement, and the wizards in Wizards of Morcar, they all only have one wound.  Heroes have a two in six chance of saving themselves from being wounded and have multiple wounds.  They also have access to much better equipment, and can find things like healing potions and gold very easily.

Advanced Heroquest allows the GM more scope, has a richer narrative and quest ideas, and has a very enjoyable character generation system for people involved in the campaign to use to create their characters should they wish to do so.

In terms of integrating the two.  Here's how it works.  The rules for Advanced Heroquest replace all the Heroquest rules, except for board and room generation.  Because Heroquest is played on a fixed board, you don't roll for passages, room type, or anything like that, you just plan out the Heroquest board in advance on a piece of paper.  You can also do it on the computer, but the program which used to be great for this no longer works properly, as it hasn't been updated in a while.  If you want to give it a try, you can download it here: http://www.heroscribe.org/heroquest.html.

There are a few other rules which are modified or tweaked to fit in with the Heroquest board, such as the large monster rule not being used, and certain traps working slightly differently, but on the whole, things are pretty straightforward to implement.

Some other links that may be of help are my old topic from WarSeer and Greywolf's Advanced Heroquest page:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?137613-Advanced-Heroquest-amp-Heroquest
http://greywolf.critter.net/ahq.htm

Please let me know if you need anything else :).

Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: cjbennett22 on September 10, 2015, 08:44:44 PM
what is the percentage of a hero at least dyeing during a game in regular hero quest?  you say they win pretty much all the time.  50% of the time, at least one has to die right? 

And do you know of a link to download the advanced hero quest rules?  Blimey, there are a lot of fan made rules out there for everything!!!  LOL

Thanks!
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: Irisado on September 11, 2015, 09:18:23 AM
In a regular game of Heroquest, the chances of a hero dying are less than twenty-five percent.  It really is that easy, unless you play Ogre Horde or Wizards of Morcar.

I don't know of a safe link for downloading the original core Advanced Heroquest rules.  I can help you out with this between the dates I gave earlier though if you can wait until then :).
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: cjbennett22 on September 11, 2015, 06:45:14 PM
oh I can wait, ebay isn't going anywhere  ;)  THANKS!

What if I just up the hit points of the secondary monsters like the orc and zombie by 1 hit?  Would that then be unfair?  Would that make it JUST difficult enough to probably kill 1 character?

To be able to fit it into the campaign, players will first purchase their heroes to command their warmaster armies like normal but then before the campaign season begins they would send their heroes out on the adventure for characteristic bonus'  (unknown yet)  and I don't want it to be a sure thing that a character will die, I just want that to be the risk they need to take to get the bonus'.  I also doubt in the campaign that anyone would ever be able to send four characters early on in the campaign game.  I might even keep them from being able to send a general on quests and just go with heroes and wizards, without their mounts of course.

As you go along, do the quests get harder or longer or just more monsters per room? I will try to take time this weekend to read through some of the quests.
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: Irisado on September 14, 2015, 08:19:12 PM
Increasing the hit points of the monsters in Heroquest doesn't really work, because their chances of saving themselves from hits is so poor.  Advanced Heroquest uses D12s, which makes for a wider range of values, and better balance as a result.  It's also more fun in my opinion.

The other difficulty with Heroquest is that the harder quests pile the rooms full of monsters to compensate for how weak they are.  This makes it incredibly difficult to actually move through rooms and around the board.  You're better off using fewer, yet more durable, monsters, and cutting down on the quantity.

The other factor, if you're concerned about heroes dying, is the amount of starting equipment they have (e.g. do they have any healing potions?), and the type of monsters they are up against.  Orcs and Goblins are not a major threat, for example, whereas Chaos Warriors are really nasty.  As long as you choose your monsters carefully, there shouldn't be an issue.
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: cjbennett22 on September 14, 2015, 10:44:02 PM
I found one of those ebay deals last night for regular hero quest.  The one where the seller has no idea what he/she is doing.  They had 4 useless pictures with no description to try and sell it and were selling it in an auction for dirt cheap, I figured if I got it then I could afford to piece it together while keeping everything under 80 bucks as that seemed to be the price break point with quality.  The only pieces I was able to see in the pictures were all furniture minus the treasure chests and all hero models and a large stack of cards.  42 bucks final price and I only got it because there seemed to be 6 pewter miniatures also included with the lot.

The seller never actually opened the box and/or removed the armory insert to show that it actually did have all of the doors, dice, monsters and furniture  :)  Now it's just up to whether it has all of the cards but now.....one question.  What are the boots, bottles and skulls for?  I keep seeing them but I find no reference to them in any of the books that I have found so far (I made myself an instruction booklet and the quest booklet)  Do I need these for anything at all?

My son's third birthday is coming up this weekend and I have friends and family coming to visit and I am super excited to play this game with everyone and to dungeon master everyone into submission  :)

I also agree that the advanced hero quest seems to be a much better game (though it is more complex).  I still cannot find a pdf to get the instructions though.  ha
best I have found so far is a fan made "enhanced" advance hero quest.  But it seems like only half of the rules and then a LOT of action cards.

I will try advanced hero quest for sure in the future once this one settles down but I would still love a pdf or something of the instructions to help me figure out what I really need.  Thank you for yoru help.
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: Stormwind on September 15, 2015, 03:37:11 PM
Just a reminder that the American Heroquest version was way harsher and a bit more complex than the Euro version which was very mild and was almost always a guaranteed hero win, especially as there was no hero scalability, could just play with all four heroes and ace it every time.

There are some excellent Heroquest fan sites, including freeware little fan games that try to convert the original quests to digital:

http://www.yeoldeinn.com/
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: cjbennett22 on September 15, 2015, 04:33:28 PM
Oh definitely, ye-old inn is fantastic.  I have spent a lot of time lately going over that entire website  :)

It's where I made the hero quest manuals from.  I just started reading the supplemental rules and they are listing the differences, it sounds like there were a lot more severe things for the US versions but not by too much.

I was reading the quests over the weekend and thought that it seemed like a hero might die in every quest, but just on the fact that 50% of the rooms should deal a body point out for traps, wandering monsters/treasure cards alone.  If the players can make sure to share the searching for treasures to keep those possibilities spread out, it shouldn't be a problem.  Put four friends together and they will get greedy and try to be the first one to search for the treasure everytime!!!  LOL
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: Irisado on September 16, 2015, 08:52:58 PM
What are the boots, bottles and skulls for?  I keep seeing them but I find no reference to them in any of the books that I have found so far (I made myself an instruction booklet and the quest booklet)  Do I need these for anything at all?

These are for some the pieces of furniture.  The skulls are stuck onto the tops of bookcases, the cupboard, the Alchemist's Bench, and the Torture Wrack.  The books are for the bookcases (as you would expect).  I can't recall anything about boots though.  Are you sure that's what they were?

I've sent you a PM about Advanced Heroquest related stuff :).
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: cjbennett22 on September 17, 2015, 02:14:51 AM
I took this snipit from the ebay page.  Is there something about elf shoes in the advanced hero quest?
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: cjbennett22 on September 18, 2015, 03:01:10 AM
got my game today!!!!

the board is a little warped and easily fixable and I am missing 2 artifact cards, the borin's armor and the wand of magic.  Very nice find for 42 dollars off of ebay!!!

played the second quest to save sir ragnar with the wife as the heroes and though time only permitted to play half of it she quickly learned not to leave a wizard in a room with an orc and goblin  LOL  I killed 2 of her heroes, the wizard and the elf.  The dwarf was about to die and the barbarian had a healing potion so he would have probably rescued the knight for all of the reward.

Cannot wait to play a full game this weekend!  :) 

oh and I will need to post a picture of the 7....that's right 7, free extra pewter hero models to see if anyone can help me identify them as I thought I have only seen plastic figures but I swear one is the female barbarian from the barbarian expansion, or frozen horror or whatever  :P

Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: Irisado on September 18, 2015, 12:21:24 PM
I took this snipit from the ebay page.  Is there something about elf shoes in the advanced hero quest?

They must come from the US version of the game, they are not part of the UK version or Advanced Heroquest.

I'm glad that you enjoyed your first game :).
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: cjbennett22 on September 23, 2015, 05:01:54 PM
I have attached a pdf of the excel spreadsheet that is letting me play around with the rules I think that will need to be tweeked to add to a warmaster campaign.  Only the four races me and my brother play as and own. I doubt I will ever find another player that would spend the time to play a campaign  LOL  when it happens I will upgrade.

Any idea from anyone to make it better?
Thank you all.
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: Irisado on September 23, 2015, 10:21:09 PM
I've never played Warmaster, sadly, so I cannot help much with that.  What I can say is that it all looks very balanced and in keeping with the lore of the races, so from my perspective I cannot see anything obvious that would need to be changed.
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: cjbennett22 on September 24, 2015, 01:38:46 AM
I have added the longsword back onto the armory list available to the warrior in case he wants to get the shield.

I have read the modified rules and I think I can add the "ranks" for a modified number of quests keeping the bottom three levels but with no henchmen, fledgling, champion and veteran.  Instead of henchmen I am going to add the +1 to the command at the veteran stage for warmaster play.  Easier for him to order troops forward.

Warmaster is the best tactical fantasy game there is and ever will be  :)
If you ever have a few spare gold crowns I would suggest picking up an army from ebay just to learn to play with a group.  Because you have plenty of people around you I'm sure that you could play a game with.  I only have my brother which I have tricked back into it.  Somehow my brother remembers this game and he thinks he might have played it but he was only a year and half older than me and I don't remember it at all.

You know what rule I can't find....spell casting.  Is a spell automatic?  Does the wizard need to roll against the mind points or anything like that to cast it?  It seems fair to automatically cast a spell successfully as they aren't too powerful but just curious as there is no mention of it at all.

Played a third quest, just a quicky again by myself to see if a hero is killed off.  This time as my warmaster heroes and the rogue/thief was killed by setting off the poisonous trap on the final treasure chest (rolled a skull), killing him but inside the chest was the elixir of health and the next hero used it to revive the other.  The next quest I will use the advanced rule, monster pool.  There was a couple of times when I thought a hero would die if there was one more monster in the room.  I am picking up the attack strategies as well and starting to very efficiently clear out the rooms.

at one point for the campaign testing I need to play a quest with just 4 warrior/barbarians as my campaign idea would allow for doing that.  I cant imagine it being easier but it does seem like a juggernaut force in this game.  Chaos races would do it a lot maybe throw a sorcerer in the mix.
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: Irisado on September 25, 2015, 01:32:22 PM
There's nobody locally who plays any wargames these days, so I don't spend any money on wargames products any more, as they just sit there without being used.  It's a great shame, and I hope that this state of affairs won't last forever, but for the moment, that's the situation.

Spell casting is just as you say.  Place the card on the table, declare that you are casting the spell, and that's it.  Some more sophisticated spell casting was introduced in the Ogre Horde and Wizards of Morcar supplements, but for the basic game you are playing it correctly :).

Thanks for keeping us updated on how your play testing is going.
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: cjbennett22 on September 27, 2015, 03:11:29 AM
Just played the lost wizard quest with the wife.  The 4 chaos warriors that are made of stone are hard as nails!!  the 5 total defend dice will defend a hit every time keeping them alive as long as possible.  They killed 3 heroes and then just for fun the warrior moved on and got killed 1 door later.

So far I have done 5 quests total and 1 hero has basically died in each one.  So I'm happy with the quests as is.  no needed monster pool rule to add monsters.

The gold is not nearly abundant as I thought so its actually kind of hard for the heroes to purchase more gear.  After 3 recorded quests the theif bought a shield and the wizard bought a staff.  Not all that helpful.

The wandering monsters make it scary to search for treasure too. A fimir popped out of no where last quest and put the thief down to 1 body point for example.
Just to be clear,  The American version of this game has 10 bad to 14 good cards so its almost a 50-50 chance.

How many of the expansions do you have irisado?  Which ones are a "must" own to add to the whole game best? I made the quest book for the kellars keep and that looks insanely hard with plenty of traps and a ton of monsters.  Some of the maps look really tricky with an Indiana jones boulder chase scene in one of them.  LOL
Which expansions should I avoid as they are just too rare and not worth it or don't add to the game all that much?
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: Irisado on September 27, 2015, 11:54:43 AM
The British version of Heroquest is so easy for the heroes to win.  It seems as though the American version is much tougher on the heroes, which is a good thing.

There are differences between the expansion packs in Europe and those which were released in the US.  Here is a list:


I cannot comment on the US expansion packs, as I've never played them, but I own all the others.  If you can get Ogre Horde and Wizards of Morcar in the US, then that would be great, as they are very tough on the heroes and a lot of fun.  Return of the Witch Lord is better than Keller's Keep in my experience, as the narrative background is more interesting.
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: Stormwind on September 27, 2015, 08:11:04 PM
The US quest packs are super hard to get hold of from what I gather.

I have Heroquest as a watchword on eBay so I occasionally go looking for them.  I think wizards of Morcar is the most prized.
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: cjbennett22 on September 28, 2015, 12:44:02 AM
I could find the punch cards in pdf and print them and glue them to a heavy gage card stock and then get my own models for the specific creatures and the quest books are available as well.  I doubt I would ever spend 300 on a board game  LOL

these people must think we are fools!

stormwind, what do you think about the heroquest/warmaster campaign?  fools erron or gold?  I see the heroes getting too powerful for a warmaster game.  As I see it right now a warrior hero could be +3 attack and a command of 10.

irisado, what are the rules in sharing items and gold?  I figured the heroes would be selfish and greedy and keep everything but what if the wrong hero gets the special artifact, like a wizard finding the soul sword?  The wizard runs out of things to buy really quickly and all of his gold can then go to another hero but no sharing right?  Can they share any items at all? healing potions etc.?
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: Irisado on September 28, 2015, 02:46:29 PM
Gold can be shared by the heroes if the players agree.  They normally do, since it is in their best interests to cooperate with one another.
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: cjbennett22 on October 22, 2015, 12:40:00 AM
FINALLY got to test 4 of my warrior classes on a quest.  Got two of them down to 1 hit point and one of the warriors should have been killed for sure but made some magical rolls in defense.  The other was saved by finding a healing potion for 4 hit points.  I think its a go as it is still not too easy to complete a quest.

During the campaign, before the spring deployment I will allow the players to send up to 4 of their characters, minus their general, on a quest.  They will be able to buy weapons and armor, each will make them better at the quests like it should and the weapons will give the characters a plus to their attacks in the warmaster games.  Then after completing 4 quests they will be granted a sort of knightship in the empire and for now will be granted a free minimum infantry unit of their race that will be "loyal" to that hero, any first order issued to that unit will be successful automatically but to that unit only and not as the brigade it may be attached to.  If this unit is killed during the campaign they can be replenished during the "re-enforcement" step of the winter season.

It even helps even out my total campaign game that includes man o'war fleets and battles because as the revenue is the same and you have more to spend it on I found during my test that I was constantly going with the fewest heroes to obtain the most amount of warmaster units I could buy.  This strategy made for poor battles as the fewest heroes cannot command an army forward very well.  But now it makes sense to make sure you have at least 4 heroes as they can then get their free units in return down the stretch of the campaign.

1 more question on the heroquest game.  Say your hero ends the movement phase on one side of a corner and on the other side of the corner of the hallway is a trap (maybe all the way down the hallway at the other end of the game board), if that hero searches for traps do you notify the player of the trap like normal or because they cannot see the trap (its around the corner) do you NOT notify the player?  I feel obligated to announce the trap just to be nice, but they cant see it right, so why let them know?

Probably just a judgement call of the game master.
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: Irisado on October 22, 2015, 09:29:26 PM
Traps are only found on the length of passage that a hero can see, so if it is located on the first square around the corner, then the heroes will not find it.  Remember, the heroes have option to search the other passage and not to move, so they won't automatically trigger a trap that is around a corner.  It's their choice ;).

The campaign sounds as though it is going really well.  I really like how you are integrating these different gaming systems.
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: cjbennett22 on October 23, 2015, 04:13:23 PM
the campaign stuff is me and my brother, we have both been trying to get something big going because we both wanted to play warmaster originally because of the grand scheme of it all.  Man O'War rules with Mighty empire campaigns will work but the fact remains that the game is inherently flawed.  I am finding out that the dwarf fleet is just the most ridiculously powerful fleet in the game and overall the game is not balanced well, FUN! but not balanced.

Instead of a campaign it is almost turning into a collection of games controlled by the campaign.  So if this all worked out and we were able to meet up regularly we wouldn't be stuck playing just one game but now three and we certainly wouldn't get bored.  still have yet to find anyone near me that plays either of these games and honestly wouldn't expect to  :)
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: cjbennett22 on November 10, 2015, 01:55:47 AM
wanted to post this here as well in case anyone was watching this thread.  I posted in the warmaster threads also.

I have attached my recently created rules to integrate hero quest into a warmaster campaign from the ME for warmaster campaigns rules revised by Helge Seetzen in 2001.

I like the idea of everything but largely untested as in I have not played a full campaign including these rules so more than likely I have not seen all of the situations or seen how players could just make some cheese to "cheat" the rules.

thank you Irisado for your help!  I stuck with heroquest as it is difficult enough but most of all, simple  :)  although I really really want to try a game of warhammer quest in my life!!!
Title: Re: stretch of an idea
Post by: Irisado on November 10, 2015, 11:16:29 PM
You're welcome :).  I'm glad that I was able to help you, and that you are enjoying the campaign.

I haven't ever played Warhammer Quest.  I'm told by those who have though that it's very good.