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Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Discussion => Topic started by: athensfantasy on July 29, 2013, 10:08:55 PM

Title: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: athensfantasy on July 29, 2013, 10:08:55 PM
UPDATE: A new survey with more detail has been launched. Visit http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/XK7NT59 to cast your votes!


I am pinging a few manufacturers of 6,10 and 15mm figures to see if there is an interest to build a new line of 10mm fantasy figures. It would be nice if we could have some indication of relative demand for the various races.

So the question is, which line would benefit most from a new line of figures, and more specifically which one would you buy if it was released (assuming of course you would like the models)?

Take into account:
- how easy it is to compile this army with existing non-GW miniatures.
- quality of existing sculpts and compatibility with GW sizes
- your own personal preference in terms of fantasy races

(apologies for the type above: it should read Dwarf of course..... could not find an option to correct it)
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: andys on July 29, 2013, 10:30:05 PM
I voted Chaos. Not surprised that the other 3 votes were for armies that don't generally have much, if anything, in the way of decent proxies available.

Most human/elf/orc/undead units are readily available already. Although there are gaps, Dogs of War Birdmen for example.

I'm surprised Chaos Dwarf isn't on the list but Eureka cover that pretty well, apart from Hobgoblin infantry types and maybe bolt throwers and their crews. I might, one day, build a Chaos Dwarf army, if only because I have loads of orcs/goblins already.

If I was a manufacturer looking to fill gaps, I'd take a close look at what is already available and initially do one army with gap-fillers for other armies if I could be assured of sales.

Edit: Having said that, Pendraken do seem to have a lot of stuff on their website, it's just the lack of photos that I find a bit off-putting. I want to see what I'm buying before I part with my hard-earned cash! If Pendraken could address that issue, perhaps we'd find that there are more proxies available than we think!
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: marell le fou on July 29, 2013, 10:40:09 PM
I have voted for Skaven and Lizardmen.

And orcs, even if we already have some other manufacturers. They are a beloved army and i think it may be more interesting, marketly speaking.

But clearly, skavens are on top of the list.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: Stormwind on July 29, 2013, 10:40:49 PM
Skaven, Vampire Counts and Araby for me.

Skaven: Because current ratmen are a bit too silly and modern with tricorner hats and suchlike.  Ratmen should be grubby and steampunky, not Restoration-looking.

Vampire Counts: As GW's own models don't appeal to me here - the fluff and 28mm range has been massively updated and I'd love to see someone use that as inspiration for 10mm.

Araby: Because even though most of the range can be proxied, GW's actual basic Spearmen lack a proxy - the camel riders are meant to have a motley collection of gunpowder weapons and flying carpets and djinn are thin on the ground.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: andys on July 29, 2013, 10:48:02 PM
stormwind,

Skaven, yes, the available stuff I've seen photos off does look pretty odd!  ???

Vampire Counts - a candidate for one or two specialised "filler" units to add into generic undead figures.

Araby - pretty well covered if you aren't too concerned that the available figures tend not to be as extravagantly dressed as GW ones. Flying carpets, Djinn and characters generally are needed though.

And you can have more than one vote? BLAST IT!  :)
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: andys on July 29, 2013, 10:57:37 PM
Speaking of proxies, could I suggest a childboard with a proxy list for each army? athensfantasy's list are a great start!
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: kyussinchains on July 30, 2013, 01:32:50 PM
I will say in Pendraken's defence that if you have a look at their forum, they have quite a lot of pics of the minis, often nicely painted, also, if you email them via the website address, they are often more than happy to send out free samples (they certainly did for me, and now I'm ordering a boatload of them)
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: RepublicsFury on July 30, 2013, 03:37:33 PM
My issue is that you haven't included the Trial Armies or any of the other possible armies.  You've only listed the figures and lines that have already been produced.  What about the Dogs of War, the Wood Elves, the Ogre Kingdoms etc & all.

I think you need to close this poll out, redo it to include ALL the armies and then redo the poll.

I didn't vote, my choices weren't present.  I already have most of if not all of the armies listed (except chaos).

Thanks,

RF
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: Stormwind on July 30, 2013, 05:41:13 PM
I'm still hoping for Evil And Chaos's ogres to get off the ground!
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: RepublicsFury on July 31, 2013, 05:17:16 PM
I suppose the overall question is... how many people would actually buy new figs for the game.  I mean a company would love to produce the figs but if they can't make money doing it then there's no point really.  So if we focus our efforts on one particular company (I'm backing Eureka Miniatures 300 program my self, not that I have any skin in the game but the program exists and is in place for us to use to produce figs just like this topic is talking about) and then generate the capitol to produce those figures then it'll happen.  If we "Willy Nilly" it all over the place then it'll never happen no matter how many polls or good intentions we have. 

Having said that... if we do the poll correctly so that it includes all the lists created, trial or otherwise (like Wood Elves etc) how would actually commit to buying figures?   That's what the poll should be.  I think we'd all love to see every list produced but who would actually commit capitol to the project?

Me... I'd buy in to figures that I don't have, maybe even some that I do have.  If it means that the project gets off the ground.  For the most part that means that non-seen mins would have to come first.  I also think if we do this then we need to get a commitment from the company  that they will produce miniatures for the seen, or already produced but now it's their take on say a gutter runner figure, as those will most certainly be lower sellers.  But if we all get on board, I believe we can get this bus to the destination!

Karl
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: athensfantasy on July 31, 2013, 08:51:05 PM
well said and that is the bottom line.

This poll is obviously just to get a feeling of whether there is any armies that are 'most wanted' and should be prioritized. Nothing more and it certainly not going to solve the problem.

I have not included the trial armies cause a) even in the GW period those were requiring conversions and some creative thinking b) we need to have easy access at least to the core armies to be able to attract/maintain a small but sustainable community around 10mm fantasy wargaming.

We could have a separate poll for the trial armies or another one including all army lists after this ends.

The bottom line is how much market there is for manufacturers to produce those. We should get a couple of projects off the ground to prove that. I say let's focus on the eureka 300 club request for araby fantasy elements and the Ogre army from Troublemaker Games.

In parallel there is nothing wrong with individual emails/requests for existing lines to be expanded. E.g. I have asked Kallistra if they would consider making some heavy armored skeletons to be used as grave guards in the vampire counts army.

We should also spread the word to non-warmaster gaming communities that would also use 10mm miniatures if those were available. HOTT, Hail Ceasar Fantasy, Kings of War, Fantasy Rules etc

Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: RepublicsFury on August 01, 2013, 04:22:44 PM
I think we'll need the mfg involved in this topic, if nothing else than to view it if they don't feel it's appropriate to participate.

To that end I've invited Leon and David from Pendraken , Nick from Eureka etc... to participate.  As that's the case I really feel that a full poll, with all the armies would be more appropriate.  Especially since Mike Renegar is getting ready for some releases for Mighty Armies.  I'd invite Magister Militum but I don't think Richard would be interested.

On the flip side Nick informed me the new 300 club Araby stuff hss a teeny traction 3 people.  But if we can get that project off the ground we'll have Araby stuff. 

See I really think the 300 club is what we're looking for.  We all just need to commit.  So, would you consider revising the poll to inckude trial armies or at keast come out with that poll.

Cheers,

Karl
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: athensfantasy on August 01, 2013, 05:24:31 PM
Sure,

can you come up with the full list of armies?
Also I ll rephrase it to which armies you would definitely buy. How many options should I allow per person?

me I have have quite a few unpainted warmaster armies, I would gladly sell those on ebay and order alternative figures if a manufacturer would produce a high quality line (I love the copplestone/eureka stuff) that covers most troop types.

I think it would be great if the manufacturers have a say/participate in the discussion. If each of them tries a different race as a single project via 300 club or kickstarter then their risks are lower and they dont have to compete each other. And the easier it is to collect a variety of armies the more people will support. A few months ago I demoed warmaster to a gaming group in Greece. A few did order armies and started playing, others would follow but not if they can't easily collect a decent army.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: Rebel Minis on August 01, 2013, 07:43:16 PM
Hello All,

This poll was brought to my attention, so I thought I would post :)

My name is Mike Renegar with Rebel Minis. Rebel Minis makes a bunch of stuff, mostly 15mm. Over the last serveral years we have been developing Mighty Armies( our Fanatsy Combat Game) for 15mm and direct only sales. Soon we will be launching a retail/distribution version of Mighty Armies in 10mm, so this topic and feedback in very intersting to me...

RebelMike
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: RepublicsFury on August 01, 2013, 08:13:46 PM
Welcome aboard Mike.  I'm glad you could join us.  If all the mfg in attendance would give us a day or two to repost the poll that would be great.  Once the poll is back up I'll send everyone on the GW Warmaster group an email asking them to participate in the discussion (I moderate the yahoo group). 

To everyone else please spread the word that we're working on this project.

Karl
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: athensfantasy on August 02, 2013, 08:51:37 AM
Wouldn't it be nice if GW would sell the line to someone else? Ral Partha has saved the demonworld line... one can only dream cause most probably GW considers the olds sculpts their IP.

Mike thanks for posting here, any chance you can disclose something more about your 10mm plans so far?
sounds very interesting!

In the meantime I think we should all reduce our spending on eBay (and on GW Australia!!!) and save some money to fund whatever new initiative comes up!
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: jchaos79 on August 02, 2013, 10:24:37 AM
Hello All,

This poll was brought to my attention, so I thought I would post :)

My name is Mike Renegar with Rebel Minis. Rebel Minis makes a bunch of stuff, mostly 15mm. Over the last serveral years we have been developing Mighty Armies( our Fanatsy Combat Game) for 15mm and direct only sales. Soon we will be launching a retail/distribution version of Mighty Armies in 10mm, so this topic and feedback in very intersting to me...

RebelMike

That is a great new!!

Post here any advance... looking forward to see the new 10mm figures

cheers
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: RepublicsFury on August 02, 2013, 02:08:14 PM
Here's the poll I'd suggest:

Empire
Tomb Kings
Chaos
Orcs&Goblins
High Elf
Dwarf
Skaven (Ratmen)
Lizardmen
Bretonnia
Kislev
Dark Elf
Vampire Count
Deamon
Araby
Dogs of War
Ogre Kingdoms
Albion
Goblins
Witch Hunters
Wood Elf
Beastmen
Chaos Warriors (For the Deamon Tournament Army Lust)
Chaos Dwarf
Dwarf Younger Holds
Norse
Cathay
Nippon
Slayer Kings
Dwarf Engineers
Grimgor's Ardboyz
Nomadic Orcs
True 10mm Siege Equipment

I don't think I left any if the Trial Armies out.  We'll need to provide a link to the trial armies list also as some may never have seen them.  Here's my link: http://www.darkagepress.com/WarmasterDownloads.html
There may be a better link like the Yahoo Group or here, not sure.

If there's other lists or armies the GW Team put out I'd love to see them and they should be included on the poll too, but I don't think I missed any.

I'm thinking we need to focus our efforts on one army and so the poll would be more along the lines of "What armies sre you willing to purchase or do a pre-order for.  Please check all that apply".  But it needs to be setup so it's ranked and will be listed out as most likely to purchase to least likely to purchase.   
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: athensfantasy on August 02, 2013, 10:30:06 PM
So how does this look?
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/XK7NT59


Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: andys on August 03, 2013, 09:09:15 AM
Done the survey, when do you intend to publish the results athensfantasy?
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: athensfantasy on August 03, 2013, 03:06:37 PM
got only 7 responses so far, let's keep them coming - i haven't set a specific deadline, whenever we have a meaningful sample I ll export the results for everyone to interpret.


Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: RepublicsFury on August 04, 2013, 12:10:04 AM
Whoo Hoo!  Boy that's a great Poll.  I'll go vote.  I'd say leave it open for a month then close it.  Post the results here and then maybe modify the first post of this thread to reflect the outcome so it's easier for the mfg. to see.

I talked to my WM group and they all said they'd try to go vote, of course that means they're gun shy and probably won't go vote.... dirty dogs. 

Keep spreading the word!

- Karl
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: Tor Gaming on August 04, 2013, 10:13:32 AM
Hi all,

My name is Gavin and I run Tor Gaming. I received an email about this thread and although I replied to the email, I thought I would pop along, sign up and post here too.

I replied to the email with:

Quote
Hi there,

There is a chance in the future we will be producing 10mm fantasy. Not in strips like the Warmaster range as they ruin moulds and sculptors don't enjoy them... But yes, we may well be doing 10mm fantasy for a system we are working on.

Now, I say 'chance' and 'may well' in reference to 10mm because I'm in two minds between 10 and 15mm.

I'm a big fan of both scales as they both portray the sense of a proper mass battle. I just can't decide which of the two scales I would aim for yet - so this survey is perfect timing for us!!

I will share this on our Facebook page for you to try and bring in some people who may not be aware of it as I am interested to see what sort of demand there is!

Thanks
Gavin
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: Baconman on August 04, 2013, 10:27:21 AM
Hello, first post.

I wonder why the Skaven are leading.  I voted for them, but never realized they were this popular.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: jchaos79 on August 04, 2013, 12:18:43 PM
Hi Gavin,

great news. Looking forward and hoping you will decide for 10mm scale!
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: jchaos79 on August 04, 2013, 12:22:47 PM
Hello, first post.

I wonder why the Skaven are leading.  I voted for them, but never realized they were this popular.


Skaven is very popular, but I suspect the high voting rate is related with the scarce of manufacturers offering rat-beast-men.  Pendraken does, but some people is looking for other kind of sculpt (I guess)
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: Baconman on August 04, 2013, 12:35:23 PM
Hello, first post.

I wonder why the Skaven are leading.  I voted for them, but never realized they were this popular.


Skaven is very popular, but I suspect the high voting rate is related with the scarce of manufacturers offering rat-beast-men.  Pendraken does, but some people is looking for other kind of sculpt (I guess)
Hmm, I never realized Skaven were so popular.  And I have some of the Pendraken Ratmen, and as good as they arre, they seem sort of tame.  Not that this should discourage you from buying them.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: forbes on August 04, 2013, 12:39:30 PM
Hi Chaps

I don't visit here too often any more - but have seen the links via the yahoo group's emails.

Without trying to be rude - you are making things hard. The survey on this thread is rather basic, and the linked through one is very over complex! Including all the trial armies is a bit much - especially as several are variants of Orcs or Dwarves.

Also isn't 10mm siege equipment pretty well covered by Kallistra and Old Glory?

I have a lot of WM armies already, and really like 10mm as a scale in general. But I'm not sure that I would buy another purely WM army. I have only played WM occasionally in the last few years, mainly playing a fantasy variant of Hail Caesar, or more recently Kings of War. One advantage of both of these, is that you can have more variety of units in an army, WM armies feel rather limited when compared against other systems.

The 10mm fantasy figures I have bought in the last 6 months or so, are ones to add units to my existing High Elf and Empire armies, to make them more versatile for KoW.

It is also interesting to read some of the comments about what armies can be built from non-GW figures - there was a recent one on the yahoo group about not being able to build basic Araby units - there are spearmen available from both Magister Miliitum and Pendraken, bowmen from these two and TB Line. Cavalry from all 3, elephants are widely available. The only ones that are more troublesome are flying carpets - Djinn I'm sure are available - 15mm ones would work fine.

The WM armies I have - and where the figures come from are:

Empire 6k - probably 100% GW
High Elf 10k - mainly GW, including BoFA. More recently added some Pendraken units for some variety.
Orcs & Goblins 4k - a mix, GW, Copplestone, BoFA, Kallistra, Pendraken
Lizardmen 3k - mainly Pendraken, some GW (salamanders) and MM Dinosaurs.
Dogs of War 4k - some GW, lots of Pendraken, some Kallistra
Araby 3k - mix of GW, MM, TB Line

For KoW it has been very useful to have different units in the armies, either the GW Elite units, or from different manufacturers. I have added a few units to my Elves for KoW using some 15mm as well as Pendraken and Kallistra.

I think the biggest gap in current 10mm is around Chaos and Demons - there is very little out there for these forces.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: athensfantasy on August 04, 2013, 12:45:27 PM
We got 25 responses on surveymonkey, keep em coming!

Gavin, thanks for replying to my email and posting here. I love both 10mm and 15mm. I use 15mm mostly for HOTT.

15mm has a great supply of miniatures already, while there is a gap in 10mm.
Obviously it is not easy to quantify the demand.

Whichever way you decide to go I am interested - your existing figures are peculiar in a very positive way, would love to see this creativity in 10/15mm. If this can also lead to something compatible with certain army lists of a popular game system like warmaster, so much the better.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: athensfantasy on August 04, 2013, 12:58:07 PM
Without trying to be rude - you are making things hard. The survey on this thread is rather basic, and the linked through one is very over complex! Including all the trial armies is a bit much - especially as several are variants of Orcs or Dwarves.

I started the simple one and received feedback that a more detailed poll was required. At the end of the day these are additional data points and hopefully they would help any manufacturers out there prioritize their efforts.

Quote
Also isn't 10mm siege equipment pretty well covered by Kallistra and Old Glory?
I think so and I expect this to be confirmed by the survey results.

Quote
I have only played WM occasionally in the last few years, mainly playing a fantasy variant of Hail Caesar, or more recently Kings of War. One advantage of both of these, is that you can have more variety of units in an army, WM armies feel rather limited when compared against other systems.

This why this is not only about warmaster. Many players have been using GW 10mm figures for other game systems and suddenly the options/quality have both dropped. So the whole 10mm community will hopefully participate.

Quote
It is also interesting to read some of the comments about what armies can be built from non-GW figures - there was a recent one on the yahoo group about not being able to build basic Araby units - there are spearmen available from both Magister Miliitum and Pendraken, bowmen from these two and TB Line. Cavalry from all 3, elephants are widely available. The only ones that are more troublesome are flying carpets - Djinn I'm sure are available - 15mm ones would work fine.

A few weeks ago I have started an effort to document the above in order to make it easier for people who want to start collecting an army, but also to highlight whatever gaps are there:
http://www.athens-fantasy.gr/2013/07/warmaster-miniatures-in-the-post-gw-era/

Any comments to improve or expand the above lists are more than welcome!

Quote
I think the biggest gap in current 10mm is around Chaos and Demons - there is very little out there for these forces.

+1
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: forbes on August 04, 2013, 01:08:42 PM
A few weeks ago I have started an effort to document the above in order to make it easier for people who want to start collecting an army, but also to highlight whatever gaps are there:
http://www.athens-fantasy.gr/2013/07/warmaster-miniatures-in-the-post-gw-era/

Any comments to improve or expand the above lists are more than welcome!

I'm more than happy to help with this (and you have linked to several of my posts (as fred12df) already! - what is the best place to post comments?
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: athensfantasy on August 04, 2013, 01:19:42 PM
Feel free to add comments under each blog post. Or and since there are still core armies I have not covered - as already suggested - we could use a thread per army and all collaborate to complete lists for all armies.I started a few here:
http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?board=66.0

Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: RepublicsFury on August 05, 2013, 07:58:31 PM
Hi Chaps

I don't visit here too often any more - but have seen the...<Snip>

Howdie Forbes,

I think many people are under the misconception that 15mm will work with 10s, They won't.  I pucked up some Kalistra Ratmen hoping they'd be acceptable but they just are too large.  And they're only heroic 10s at around 12mm or so.  If I absolutely couldn't get 10s I'd make my own.  Mist don't have that luxry and so true 10s are still needed.  I like Pendraken  and Eureka a whole lot! Both Leon (Pendraken) and Nick (Eureka) "Get it" and their service and support is top notch!  For me and many I game with and see at the shows agree that both more fantasy 10s are needed and that 10s are the new 15s.

I'm glad we are seeing people participate and look forward to the outcome.

Karl
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: forbes on August 05, 2013, 08:25:41 PM
I think many people are under the misconception that 15mm will work with 10s,

I don't think I was really suggesting that in general 15mm figures work with 10mm figures. But there are a few cases were this works - especially when the size of the creature is large, and fantastical.  Which is why I mentioned 15mm in relation to the Araby Djinn, the standard GW model is 30-40mm tall.

This also works for giants - Copplestone have just released some 15mm giants which are 40mm tall - which is the same height as the GW Orc and Goblin Giant.

I recently added some forest creatures to my KoW Elven army - for this I used a mix of 10mm figures (Pendraken and Eureka) as well as 15mm Splintered Light and 6mm as well. As most were fantastical creatures the mix works well together.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tzULbMhDScc/UPMA4pXwOAI/AAAAAAAABoo/sfN7lt8WPhs/s1024/IMG_0005.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-FsujC1usj1w/UPM0s6JPV_I/AAAAAAAABo4/WqldL2IE2Ps/s1024/IMG_0009.jpg)

I'm certainly not suggesting adding 15mm halberdiers to my Empire army.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: andys on August 05, 2013, 09:05:39 PM
Hello, first post.

I wonder why the Skaven are leading.  I voted for them, but never realized they were this popular.
It might not be their popularity, rather the lack of suitable figures available? Whilst I'd encourage manufacturers to look closely at the gap in the market GW has created, if I were them I'd be cautious about a large commitment based on a smallish sample of opinion, "learned" though it may well be  ;).

Perhaps if they asked for potential customer opinions at trade shows or canvassed wargames clubs via e-mail?
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: RepublicsFury on August 06, 2013, 04:10:43 AM
I recently added some forest creatures to my KoW Elven army - for this I used a mix of 10mm figures (Pendraken and Eureka) as well as 15mm Splintered Light and 6mm as well. As most were fantastical creatures the mix works well together.

Fred those look even better finished than when you put up the initial pics on Pendraken back in January.  Great stuff!

I do think that we need to stay on topic though, which is 10mm Minis!  ;)

- Karl
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: Vermis on August 08, 2013, 11:01:05 AM
I only voted on the poll here on SA.  Skaven and lizardmen, which is handy 'cos those two are leading at the moment.

My question is, how likely or essential is it that other manufacturers produce ratmen with triangular runes, giant bells and hamster wheels, horned sorcerers and gas-masked grenadiers, etc.? Or lizardmen with a distinct mesoamerican theme, backed up with triceratops howdahs and big toad wizards on palanquins or floating stone chairs, among other things?

I know you're trying to cater for other 10mm games too, and there's a history of proxy and conversion for this game; but it would be a pity if any 3rd party stepping in to fill the newly-vacated void with brand-spanking new ranges, had to neglect sizable and pivotal chunks of Warmaster background (Warhammer IP?) and maintain the necessity of proxy and conversion.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: athensfantasy on August 08, 2013, 11:30:08 AM
Well, obviously any manufacturer would be careful not to enter GW IP zones.
But that is not a bad thing. It would be nice if new figures are produced with fresh ideas.
As long as those are easy to identify as proxies of 'something else' then it is cool in my opinion.

It does not have to be a doom wheel for example, it could be any large and cunning machine of war with ratmen on it. Compatibility with the GW sizes is more important I think as it means existing armies can be extended without looking odd.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: jchaos79 on August 08, 2013, 10:05:07 PM
Just my opinion: it would be nice fresh new ideas / concepts for the range going beyond gw. I could handle fantasy generic or other settings not stick to gw.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: RepublicsFury on August 09, 2013, 03:16:46 PM
I only voted on the poll here on SA.  Skaven and lizardmen, which is handy 'cos those two are leading at the moment.

My question is, how likely or essential is it that other manufacturers produce ratmen with triangular runes, giant bells and hamster wheels, horned sorcerers and gas-masked grenadiers, etc.? Or lizardmen with a distinct mesoamerican theme, backed up with triceratops howdahs and big toad wizards on palanquins or floating stone chairs, among other things?

I know you're trying to cater for other 10mm games too, and there's a history of proxy and conversion for this game; but it would be a pity if any 3rd party stepping in to fill the newly-vacated void with brand-spanking new ranges, had to neglect sizable and pivotal chunks of Warmaster background (Warhammer IP?) and maintain the necessity of proxy and conversion.

Personally I don't see a need for those designs.  If you really want them on you figures then green stuff or paint them on the figures.  Remember GW has abandoned us not the other way round and if we expect to see this game stay around as a played game then we need to accept proxies and new lists from what the community would say was a trusted playtest group.  But that's a different topic.  Great question!  But for me I ss y no big deal and not needed.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: RepublicsFury on August 09, 2013, 03:18:34 PM
Well, obviously any manufacturer would be careful not to enter GW IP zones.
But that is not a bad thing. It would be nice if new figures are produced with fresh ideas.
As long as those are easy to identify as proxies of 'something else' then it is cool in my opinion.

It does not have to be a doom wheel for example, it could be any large and cunning machine of war with ratmen on it. Compatibility with the GW sizes is more important I think as it means existing armies can be extended without looking odd.

I totally agree!
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: athensfantasy on August 13, 2013, 11:14:02 PM
38 responses so far.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: RepublicsFury on August 13, 2013, 11:27:23 PM
It's not finished yet though right?  We still have a coule of weeks before its clisrd out?  I asked Lex to send a msss email to everyone asking them to particioate.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: athensfantasy on August 13, 2013, 11:34:09 PM
oh sorry! I saw there were no more new entries the last few days and published the above
am hiding it so that it does not influence new voters!
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: RepublicsFury on August 14, 2013, 02:15:23 AM
Perfect.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: RepublicsFury on August 28, 2013, 07:33:54 AM
I think its time to finish the poll
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: athensfantasy on September 01, 2013, 10:11:09 PM

How much would you commit to spend for a new Warmaster army, if a new 10mm line would be produced that would cover most troop types.                        
                        
            50$   100$   150$   200$   250$   300$   MORE!!!   TOTAL
Araby   10   5   2   5   1   1   1   3250
Beastmen   4   5   3   2   1   0   2   2600
Dark Elf   5   2   4   4   1   0   1   2500
Wood Elf   7   2   4   3   0   1   1   2450
Dogs of War   4   4   5   1   2   0   1   2450
Chaos Dwarf   5   2   2   4   2   0   1   2450
Nippon   5   2   2   3   0   1   2   2450
Skaven (Ratmen)   6   2   5   2   0   0   2   2450
Deamon   3   2   2   4   0   0   2   2250
Cathay   3   3   2   2   0   1   2   2250
Lizardmen   3   4   4   2   1   0   1   2200
Vampire Count   5   5   4   2   0   0   1   2150
Kislev   4   4   2   2   1   0   1   1950
True 10mm Siege Equipment   10   5   5   1   0   0   0   1950
Chaos   5   4   4   3   0   0   0   1850
Norse   5   3   3   2   0   0   1   1800
Bretonnia   3   7   5   1   0   0   0   1800
Dwarf   6   1   3   3   0   1   0   1750
Ogre Kingdoms   5   3   4   1   0   0   0   1350
Empire   3   5   3   1   0   0   0   1300
High Elf   7   6   2   0   0   0   0   1250
Orcs&Goblins   8   7   1   0   0   0   0   1250
Tomb Kings   5   3   1   2   0   0   0   1100
Albion   1   3   3   0   0   1   0   1100
Goblins   3   6   2   0   0   0   0   1050
Chaos Warriors (For the Deamon Tournament Army Lust)   3   3   3   0   0   0   0   900
Dwarf Engineers   3   2   3   0   0   0   0   800
Dwarf Younger Holds   4   0   2   0   1   0   0   750
Nomadic Orcs   2   1   1   2   0   0   0   750
Witch Hunters   6   1   2   0   0   0   0   700
Slayer Kings   4   1   1   1   0   0   0   650
Grimgor's Ardboyz   3   1   1   0   0   0   0   400


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Which army you think is the easiest to create today without GW miniatures? Based on that there could be some quickwins where just a few new figures are needed because the rest are already widely available.   
   
   
   
    Average Rating (1 very hard 4 very easy)
Deamon    1.64
Lizardmen    1.96
Ogre Kingdoms    2.05
Skaven (Ratmen)    2.11
Chaos    2.31
Chaos Warriors (For the Deamon Tournament Army Lust)    2.33
Chaos Dwarf    2.50
Dwarf Engineers    2.63
Albion    2.67
Dwarf Younger Holds    2.67
Dark Elf    2.68
Vampire Count    2.76
Kislev    2.76
Slayer Kings    2.79
Beastmen    2.81
Wood Elf    2.83
Witch Hunters    2.87
Cathay    3.06
Nomadic Orcs    3.07
Araby    3.08
Tomb Kings    3.11
Nippon    3.12
Grimgor's Ardboyz    3.14
Dogs of War    3.24
Goblins    3.25
Norse    3.30
High Elf    3.38
Dwarf    3.41
Orcs&Goblins    3.46
Bretonnia    3.61
Empire    3.75
-----------------------------

Even if you have those armies in your collection, which 1 army would you say is most badly needed? E.g. Even if you would not buy yourself, which one you think is more important to have in order to better support the game/community (e.g. because of army popularity, lack of alternatives in the market today etc)?   
   
   
Answer Choices   Responses
Skaven (Ratmen)   7
Lizardmen   5
Chaos   4
Beastmen   3
Vampire Count   2
True 10mm Siege Equipment   2
Deamon   2
Araby   2
Dogs of War   2
Wood Elf   2
Goblins   2
Cathay   1
Empire   1
Orcs&Goblins   1
Nomadic Orcs   1
Ogre Kingdoms   1
Kislev   1
Dark Elf   1
Dwarf   0
Witch Hunters   0
Bretonnia   0
Chaos Warriors (For the Deamon Tournament Army Lust)   0
Chaos Dwarf   0
Dwarf Younger Holds   0
Norse   0
Tomb Kings   0
Nippon   0
Slayer Kings   0
Dwarf Engineers   0
Grimgor's Ardboyz   0
High Elf   0
Albion   0
   

   
   
   
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: forbes on September 02, 2013, 09:11:41 PM
Lots of data!

I have attempted to tabulate the top scorers in each category, and scale them all on 1 to 100. I have reversed Easy to Assemble to make the hardest to assemble from current models score the most highly.

ArmySpendAssembleNeededTotal
Skaven7278100250
Lizardmen638571219
Deamon6510029193
Chaos516857176
Beastmen774543165
Araby1003229160
Wood Elf724429144
Dark Elf745114139
Vampire Counts614729137
Chaos Dwarf72590131
Ogre Kingdoms338114128
Dogs of War722429125
Cathay653314112
Nippon72300102

Skaven at the top - with high spend, hard to assemble, and top marks for need.
Lizardmen and Demons and close in 2nd and 3rd. Lizardmen score highly across all 3 categories.
I'm surprised that Demons scored so lowly on Need, but I'm not surprised they top score on hard to assemble.

Beastmen and Araby could be easy wins for manufacturers as both are fairly complete from existing ranges, but are popular with buyers.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: jchaos79 on September 02, 2013, 09:18:14 PM
Hey Forbes, great sum up.  8)
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: Aquahog on September 03, 2013, 11:10:21 AM
Great stuff! Hope somebody jumps on the band wagon and launches a lizard range before I decide that in my universe there's no rule on the size of a lizardman and go for the Microworld range.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: forbes on September 03, 2013, 12:34:44 PM
aquahog - have you looked at the Pendraken lizardmen? I bought an army from them about 18mts ago - they have several types of lizardmen so you can cover off the main troops fairly easily.

These are the older lizardmen range, painted up as Salamanders for KoW (which are quite different from WM Salamanders)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-I06ciUGFm7I/UiOGbktHAPI/AAAAAAAACC8/5LjKGPU6PmA/s1024/IMG_2251.jpg)
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: RepublicsFury on September 08, 2013, 09:48:04 PM
Also on the flip side it appears that Fantasy Flight picked up the Specialist Ranges (all of them) so it loiks like we may be back in business soon, if it's true.

Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: athensfantasy on September 08, 2013, 11:03:31 PM
would be nice... I ve seen this on various forums on the web. To be honest it did seem like wishful thinking from SG/FF fans. Even if it would happen, my guess is that Bloodbowl would be the priority but one can only hope, right?

is there any other reference of the rumor?
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: andys on September 16, 2014, 08:32:50 PM
Sorry for the thread necromancy but if you can't do a bit of necromancy in the world of Warmaster, where can you do it?  ;) ;D

So, a year on from Forbes and Athensfantasy's rather excellent piece of work, how have things changed with regard to the top three armies, Skaven, Lizardmen and Deamons they identified and the commercial availability of figures?

Sadly I'm not aware of any new Skaven-type miniatures from any manufacturer. Magister Militum have a Ratmen range planned but it's only 6 codes and doesn't seem to cover much of the Skaven list.

Lizardmen have done better. Magister Militum are producing an, as yet, incomplete Reptiles and Amphibian Men range that, based on the photos on their website offers reasonable proxies for 6 out of the 8 unit types. The missing two, Salamanders and Kroxigor have proxies from various manufacturers but they aren't generally visually similar to GW originals. Whether MM's command pack will give us suitable characters, particularly the Slann, is unknown. I don't think it's possible to create a full GW-like army as yet but we're getting close.

Deamons have a couple of new codes from Magister Militum but apart from using various Eureka codes, are still fairly poorly served, at least on a price per unit basis. Via Ebay and Eureka you can more or less create a Deamon army but it won't be a low-cost or easy path to tread. How the various figures, sourced from different manufacturers look together might be another matter, although as Deamons could be said to be the ultimate fantasy figure, perhaps any visual differences wouldn't matter that much?

A fair summary?
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: jchaos79 on September 16, 2014, 09:23:26 PM
Awesomeshotdude is working in the lizards. http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=6211.120

Daemons. Depend on your taste. Black Ed have a wonderful daeomn army with proxis, a touch of Black Ed's genius and modelling skills is needed but  http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=988.0
Also Magister millitum some interesting references (for khorne or generic daemon).

About skaven, you have pendraken (kallistra) and Magister millitum (when they release their product).

Leon from Pendraken said that there will be a revamp of fantasy figures.

There are some new fantasy manufacturers like Bedn Sinister that maybe could do something in the future.




Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: Stormwind on September 16, 2014, 11:53:51 PM
Warmonger is doing Empire proxies that work as Skirmishers and as Halberdiers, don't forget that!

We had an Evil Men starter that is for mortal Chaos proxies.

Admittedly these aren't filling the niche gap - but remember that peoples' needs changed as the market has changed.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: jchaos79 on September 17, 2014, 06:45:07 AM
Two more: Bel with his siberian goblins and abomination miniatures with the ogres
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: Stormwind on September 17, 2014, 05:12:06 PM
Ah yes,

the ogres are fab - it's a shame E&C went on to do Epic instead.

Bel's work is amazing and I can't wait to see his work.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: andys on October 22, 2015, 07:47:33 PM
Raising this thread from the dead like the foulest of Necromancers raising legions of the Undead, now that Eureka have got a Lizardman line, Dave has made an excellent start on an Empire/Dogs of War range and Evil Men exist for Chaos proxies, is it time to run this poll again?

Skaven are the next army in line, based on the previous results but are they still in the lead?

Anyone know how to reset the poll to have another run at it?
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: jchaos79 on October 24, 2015, 02:00:43 PM
There us also great bob undead infantry. A whole range of chaos made by barbarian. And warmonger units also covers imperial stuff for new players.

Sad news tb line drop productions so araby bretonian some kislev proxies are lost.

Polar fox covers the greenskins fairly well.

And eureka has serpentman to proxi lizardmen crazy mind pkayers.

Finally magister millitum has fpne a huge effort to bring us new rxciting alternatives for almost all the armies. Exciting times for 10mm World
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: Stormwind on October 24, 2015, 06:24:28 PM
Yeah TB disappearing is definitely a blow for Araby proxies as I feel they were the best available ones.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: Sjapie on December 17, 2015, 01:26:09 PM
Maybe I am more specific about this than most of you, but the thing I'm most looking for is a decent quality of Figures. Many of the 10 mm ranges aren't up to par.

For me personally, this offsets the price for my army in a huge way. Just to indicate that the previous stats on price and money you're willing to spend isn't a definitive item.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: Stormwind on December 18, 2015, 09:29:56 PM
Yes, I think I know what you mean.

For me, I was absolutely disinterested in making a Dogs of War army, but the Warmonger miniatures were so good I bought 6 units of them and will probably buy more.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: empireaddict on December 19, 2015, 10:15:07 AM
Agree with Sjapie.  A decade ago, the GW 'originals' seem to have raised the bar considerably for 10mm quality.   From my recent experience a good deal of the Eureka stuff is on a par in terms of quality/number of poses.  Ditto Copplestone and Warmonger with the latter being especially good.  Other 10mm manufacturers lack basic detailing.  Some of them also expect you to buy their minis without even bothering to put pictures of them on their website.  Or they put up pictures with slap-it-on paint-jobs that obscure the detail.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: flankyou on July 01, 2017, 06:29:27 AM
I contacted GW - they said they might to print on demand for Warmaster. I was wondering if we get a big enough order together, maybe they'll do it by request.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: Aldhick on July 01, 2017, 08:24:43 AM
I checked the calendar and April 1st was some months ago.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: Stormwind on July 01, 2017, 04:45:30 PM
My kingdom for a 2000 point Araby army!  GW I'll just set up a Direct Debit with you and you can take it all.
Title: Re: Which 10mm fantasy line would you buy?
Post by: MaWo79 on July 02, 2017, 03:41:58 PM
If that is true I would buy several armies just in case. Hell I'd take whatever I can. Is 2000 points enough?

Empire
Skaven
Orks
maybe Chaos

But I must admit that it sounds too good to be true.