The Specialist Arms Forum

Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] Discussion => Topic started by: Talos on March 01, 2013, 04:40:50 AM

Title: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: Talos on March 01, 2013, 04:40:50 AM
Hey guys,

I can't help but feel like we are making some real headway here. Plaxor's original ambitious project has been dissected and is going ahead at a good clip as we tackle issues one at a time through community voting. Which is good.

But I feel like there is a bit of a problem: everyone in the community can vote, but this project is not for the entire community. It is for those in the community who want to use it, who want to share it and who want to develop it to improve the game.

I get that not everyone wants the same things from this project, but one thing is certain: this is not theoretical and it is radical. There is no way around that. Traditional minded players do not accept the Faq 2010, and are even less inclined to accept this project as it is even less official then that hallowed document. This document is intended to improve the game in the ways that acting players want to, to make it both more balanced, enjoyable and refined.

I can't help but feel that not everyone that votes or voices an opinion actually wants this project to come to fruition or does not care because they have no intent of ever using it. It seems strange to me then that these people have equal voice in it because they skew votes: if for example everyone who intended to use BFG:R wanted the desolator removed (obviously not the case), and the vote ended up tied because of people who don't really care for the project it would be unfair to the players intent on actually playing it to have their rules modified by people that will be un-involved in actual play.

So basically, is there anyone working on this other than me and afterimagedan who actually intend to use the BFG:R project as a whole?
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: Vaaish on March 01, 2013, 05:31:02 AM
I'm willing to use it if the results help to balance aspects of the game that the HA weren't able to tackle for a variety of reasons.

I AM very concerned about the clip the project is moving at. Is there any play testing of proposed changes happening or is the discussion entirely theoretical? I find it more than a little frightening to think that what's talked about for a day or two gets thrown up for a vote to be "official." There seems to be very little vetting of rules or changes before these votes take place and if the votes are simply to help make a beta document for testing, there doesn't seem to be a clear path to trials before things become final. What I've been party to thus far also concerns me that there is no baseline to test against at this point because everything is in flux at the same time and that all changes are simply coming up as whatever feels good at the moment.

For instance, the changes to Bakka to restrict carriers using reserve rules. It seems like a fluffy and cool concept since the fleet is supposed to be low AC, but did anyone actually TEST the fleet with the rule in effect before it went to vote? If so, how many tests were performed and against what fleets? There's no telling at this point if the change just completely broke Bakka because AC are too scarce for it to survive on FDT and extra turrets alone.

The same goes for the Jovian, it's a ship that shouldn't exist. It goes against the core of the IN. One that was so volatile the HA made it a reserve ship to an obscure fleet with a limit of 0-1. Yet with exceptionally little discussion it was thrown to a vote to be made "official" so that ever IN fleet can pull it out.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: horizon on March 01, 2013, 05:37:28 AM
My main intention is to use the revised point costs (and incidental) state change for existing ships.
And the fleet lists when I like them.

Just as with the FAQ: people will pick what they like and drop what they dislike.

We still use the BFG v1.0 blastmarker rules. :)
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: Koshi on March 01, 2013, 08:01:42 AM
I want to use it, when it is done. I like the changes so far and when it is done I want to use it entirely.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: Brethren on March 01, 2013, 10:38:42 AM
I want to use it, when it is done. I like the changes so far and when it is done I want to use it entirely.
Same here. I really liked BFG:R v1.0 for simplifying stuff (i.e. merging everything in less books, turrets in squadrons) and trying to fix ships that were obviously wrong (stat or point-wise).
My buddy complaints a lot how the IN light cruisers turned out... but that's all barking, no biting. ;D
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: RCgothic on March 01, 2013, 10:49:56 AM
I'm afraid I've not been as active lately as I used to be and have become a little out of the loop, but I certainly intended to use BFG:R as it stood when I last had any idea what it was.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on March 01, 2013, 12:11:23 PM
Like some others my only concern with this is the lack of testing, but if we can get everything to a point where we have compleated fleet lists I think we will be at a good place to run tests. Right now I guess the fleets that are "done" should have a feedback area maybe to go over results that people have had. I know I havent had any complaints with what we have compleated so far, of course with the exception of 2 hit escorts there hasnt been anything really major done so far. Where people will sit with some of the things were working on now will need to be seen.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: Talos on March 01, 2013, 01:37:04 PM
Although we have had lots of proofreading and outside opinions, playtesting new rules is always important, and I see where people stand on this. Is there anybody willing to playtest some of the fleets so far? I can see about trying the IN modifications with ThaneAquilon, and he try out anything we do with tau or eldar (which is very little since we basically took MMS 1.9b unmodified). Is there anyone with Necron or SM fleets that can do some testing on them? We have Chaos stuff but I am worried about testing it since the document is not complete yet.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: afterimagedan on March 01, 2013, 02:31:22 PM
While I think most of the passed votes does not need any/much playtesting because of how small the changes or how commonly accepted the changes are, I think it we should get a playtesting page up (which I will start in a sec) so that people can talk about their experiences playtesting the changes.  Some of the changes have been personally playtested by myself so I can validate many of the changes made so far. Just so everyone knows, I have a list of the changes passed and the documents in their current state here:

++BFG:R Project++ (http://afterimagedan.blogspot.com/p/as-any-of-you-know-i-am-supporter-and.html)
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: Spellfire on March 01, 2013, 04:49:31 PM
Is the project a revision of just the fleet lists or the rules as well? The reason I ask is because I cannot see any updated rules on the site linked above.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: Bessemer on March 01, 2013, 05:18:42 PM
The play-testing page is a bloody good Idea! No more asking round to see whose doing what!

As for those who don't care, I have noticed something. There's around a dozen or so regular posters on this forum, and at least double that in semi-regulars (like myself), plus hangers on.

Yet the votes seem to only get around 10 or so votes to them. One of which is mine. I've voted on damn near all the polls so far. So there must be a fair few who want their voice to be herd but not contributing to the polls. Don't take this as a vitriolic rant, I don't have much time to keep an active presence myself, the only reason I've been as active as I have over the last few days is 'cause I've had the week off.

But the way I see it, once the we're done, the whole thing will become a sort of "living rulebook" like the SG stuff was supposed to be- a ruleset that was going to be updated every so often, with fan/community input.

lets just get the bare bones done and address major sticking points later instead of bogging down with point-counterpoint going on for x-number of pages.

Dan-Your the man at the wheel, so to speak. Ever thought of giving yourself power of veto?
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: afterimagedan on March 01, 2013, 07:00:22 PM
Is the project a revision of just the fleet lists or the rules as well? The reason I ask is because I cannot see any updated rules on the site linked above.

No rules updates yet except the changes to nova cannons and some little stuff for 2 hit escorts.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: afterimagedan on March 01, 2013, 07:04:18 PM
The play-testing page is a bloody good Idea! No more asking round to see whose doing what!

As for those who don't care, I have noticed something. There's around a dozen or so regular posters on this forum, and at least double that in semi-regulars (like myself), plus hangers on.

Yet the votes seem to only get around 10 or so votes to them. One of which is mine. I've voted on damn near all the polls so far. So there must be a fair few who want their voice to be herd but not contributing to the polls. Don't take this as a vitriolic rant, I don't have much time to keep an active presence myself, the only reason I've been as active as I have over the last few days is 'cause I've had the week off.

But the way I see it, once the we're done, the whole thing will become a sort of "living rulebook" like the SG stuff was supposed to be- a ruleset that was going to be updated every so often, with fan/community input.

lets just get the bare bones done and address major sticking points later instead of bogging down with point-counterpoint going on for x-number of pages.

Dan-Your the man at the wheel, so to speak. Ever thought of giving yourself power of veto?

That's the thing. I don't want to be the man at the wheel, I just want to facilitate the voting. I will not give myself the power to veto. I am not going to be that guy and tyrant this project. Changes through voting, even if it takes longer. You know, other projects have come and gone because one member takes too much onto themselves.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: Seahawk on March 01, 2013, 07:28:51 PM
I abstain from voting because I have no intention to use BFG:R, and I don't want to mess the vote, as it were. ;)
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: afterimagedan on March 01, 2013, 07:34:49 PM
Seahawk, I highly appreciate that!
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: ThaneAquilon on March 01, 2013, 07:43:20 PM
Talos and I also appreciate it, Seahawk.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: horizon on March 01, 2013, 08:04:24 PM
Even if you don't vote you may add opinions and feedback.

As for voting, back when it started a few more people voted. But the new fewer votes are overriding some ;)
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: ThaneAquilon on March 01, 2013, 10:33:57 PM
I only vote on things that I know about, so I won't vote on nids and orks and such.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on March 02, 2013, 02:02:54 AM
Oy? Des boyz ne summn to fink up dey rulz.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: Tyberius on March 02, 2013, 03:01:32 AM
I actually don't know the project, If you can post a link where I can see and/or read it I will be happy and grateful..


Never mind I found it...
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: Tyberius on March 02, 2013, 03:53:01 AM
I do support this initiative, I love what you did with the before useless endeavour kin lt. cruisers, the recalculated costs and the necron and tau fleet I also do love the 2 hit escorts you have my vote!!!!
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: Casus belli on March 02, 2013, 09:45:41 AM
Hi everyone,
I am a quite conservative player, but I really want to use BFG:R, and really hope it succeeds and catches on with as many players as possible. All the rules, between two covers, for all the players. That's what we need. Thanks to afterimagedan for all the effort in putting it together!

Vaaish's first post in this thread sums up well how I feel about the voting for changes. As I write, we're in the strange situation where it might only take a total of five votes (its now tied 4:4) to allow the Jovian to appear in any IN fleet. Changes like that (among others), made by such low vote counts, might hurt the legitimacy of BFG:R in the eyes of a lot of players.

Anyway, I hope you all wont mind if I join in with some of your discussions.
(I'll post a proper introduction later, probably in the modelling section, but need to take some photos first. Everyone knows introductions are worthless without lots of nice pics of converted ships!)

Christopher
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: afterimagedan on March 02, 2013, 03:50:20 PM
Hey Casus! Glad to have you.  Though you should know, we are not going to allow the fact that we only have a small amount of voters to hold us back from getting BFG:R done. It isn't our fault there are only 8 people voting on the polls but we put them out there and the people who want to make an impact on BFG:R will have their chance.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: schwager on March 02, 2013, 09:05:45 PM
I care, and will definitely give it a good look when it's done.
Although I would love to contribute and vote also, I simply don't feel that I'm qualified to do so... not at this stage anyway. Having been away from the game for a long time, I first need to familiarise myself with all the current rules again.

Besides, I'm much more of an aesthetically driven gamer, than a rules expert. I just love spaceship miniatures... especially the BFG ones.

I will, however, be watching these developments closely and I commend all those involved for their great efforts in making this happen. Thank you :)
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: Seahawk on March 04, 2013, 07:10:01 PM
I just can't wait til you get this all done and stop spamming the discussion forum with polls. :P
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: afterimagedan on March 04, 2013, 07:23:57 PM
NEVER.  :-* P.S. YOURE GOING DOWN SEAHAWK. PREPARE FOR SECOND PLACE THIS ADEPTICON
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: BaronIveagh on March 06, 2013, 08:05:17 PM
Eh.  I'll be honest, from what I've seen the community, outside posters here, have more or less lost interest in it, if they know about it at all.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: afterimagedan on March 06, 2013, 09:38:04 PM
Thanks for the encouragement, Baron!  ::)
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: BaronIveagh on March 06, 2013, 11:35:51 PM
Thanks for the encouragement, Baron!  ::)

*shrug* I might care more myself, but for some reason I've never been able to vote on any of them. 

Not that I really care much about it till the Jovian one came up.  I've a big fan of that ship and wanted to vote to allow it.

 But couldn't.  So...
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: afterimagedan on March 06, 2013, 11:38:17 PM
Message the mods about it. Cyber shadow responded to me within minutes today.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: BaronIveagh on March 06, 2013, 11:48:22 PM
Yeah, Horizon just mentioned it.  I've asked him to add my vote to the Jovian thread and let him know what my stats are for troubleshooting.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: horizon on March 07, 2013, 05:11:31 AM
Like afterimageDan says: shoot Cybershadow or Mod-Lex an email or personal message.

I use FireFox as well and have no issues with voting, so that is weird. You must be logged in to vote, that is a given. And you can only vote within the timeframe the vote is running. Check out the Victory voting today, just to see if you can vote.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: BaronIveagh on March 07, 2013, 06:06:03 AM
I figured it out.  Cache cleared, voting commenced.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: afterimagedan on March 07, 2013, 06:13:26 AM
I had to do the same thing. Something weird was happening and I couldn't post from on Chrome yesterday. Cache problems as well.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: horizon on March 07, 2013, 06:37:05 AM
Cool.  :)
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: Khar on March 07, 2013, 11:37:14 AM
Just dropping in to say I care ;)
Currently, we're playing only BFG:R here [my fault, I'm grooming new players towards it ;)] while ignoring more conservative minded players.
I find R vastly superior when it comes to game balance and new recruits don't mind.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: Zhukov on March 09, 2013, 03:10:21 AM

Here's my opinion (Brace for Impact).

IIRC, BFG:R was started around the time the FAQ 2010 was still being worked on. It was started by a small group of players who didn't appreciate the HA for not including what they perceived as balance and rules issues in the game. It was of my opinion these players decided to abandon helping the FAQ, and instead focus all their time on their own project. I, for one, was not a part of this crowd. I felt it was of supreme importance to have a recognized official document that everyone would use, rather than a random grouping of house rules cobbled together by a minority.

I'm not dissing the work you have put into the document. Honestly, I've never even looked at it. But we all use various house rules of some kind that we believe make the game more functional than it is written (I.e. I follow original torpedo rules, place blast markers for each shield and internal hit, and 2-hit escorts). But I thought it was... odd to have multiple rules updates happening at the same time. I know it's been 3 years, but I've barely digested the FAQ, let alone really seeing the need for some modifications to it.

Seriously, keep up the work! This is a dying game that needs every die-hard like you to keep it going. If working on a really pretty looking house rules compendium (no sarcasm here. From what I have seen, this will look really sharp) is the way to keep this game going, then go for it! I'm just trying to explain the low participation.

Cheers,
-Zhukov
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: BaronIveagh on March 09, 2013, 03:28:54 AM
I'm not dissing the work you have put into the document. Honestly, I've never even looked at it. But we all use various house rules of some kind that we believe make the game more functional than it is written (I.e. I follow original torpedo rules, place blast markers for each shield and internal hit, and 2-hit escorts). But I thought it was... odd to have multiple rules updates happening at the same time. I know it's been 3 years, but I've barely digested the FAQ, let alone really seeing the need for some modifications to it.

I'll be honest, I more or less share zhukov's perspective.  BFG:R grew out of the fact that the Rules process had, in part, become too political.  Basic common sense and good game design started to take a back seat to people's personal agendas and vendettas.   Hypocrisy ran rampant in the forums (and to an extent I was as guilty as Sig, Horizon, and the rest).

I'll be honest, BFG:R means little to me, though I speak up on certain issues with certain fleets, because it's ultimately a distraction from what we need to be doing, which is elevating BFG in the public eye of the TT gaming community.  We've been pissing away a golden opportunity to leverage FFG's Rogue Trader RPG into increased visibility for BFG.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: Vaaish on March 09, 2013, 03:45:14 PM
Quote
IIRC, BFG:R was started around the time the FAQ 2010 was still being worked on. It was started by a small group of players who didn't appreciate the HA for not including what they perceived as balance and rules issues in the game.

that's not a very fair assessment. When the FAQ was being worked on the HA made clear that there were some issues they couldn't touch like changing the base stats for the existing ships for the FAQ to be more palatable to GW. BFGR was supposed to fix those things the HA couldn't. Since then it seems to have morphed into something more expansive.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: Khar on March 09, 2013, 04:16:26 PM
We should also remember, that while FAQ 2010 did change lots of stuff for the better, in many places problems ran way deeper. Official rules gave us broken Necrons and Eldar that won or lost battles during determining battlefield features. FAQ never intended to change this things, and other bigger balance issues, so other, less official update, was needed in oppinion of some.

Also, years have passed and FAQ is still not in the slightest acknowleged by GW. So it's just as unofficial as BFG:R. But do people care? Not really. It was needed and it's used in many gaming circles. So, seeing that 'official' has lost its meaning, this big issues that FAQ never intended to touch can also be fixed.

Yeah, BFG community isn't really doing much to promote the game to the broader audience, but really, what would it  change? We are not getting official update, nevermind how popular the game will get now. And if we do get it, seeing what happnes to the 40k rules and setting now, we will wish we didn't.

So what is left is mend the broken parts as good as we can, for those few who care about it and keep playing. Is anyone really bothered that wargaming community has barely heard about his game?

Yeah, BFG:R is just a pretty house rule compendium, but for most of the player base, this game is never really played outside of the house.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: afterimagedan on March 09, 2013, 04:26:40 PM
Is anyone really bothered that wargaming community has barely heard about his game?

Yes. I would love to promote it so that there are more players around, especially where I am.

but for most of the player base, this game is never really played outside of the house.

Doesn't have to be this way. I like promoting the game to my gaming community and have seen some new players. I will continue to do so.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: Khar on March 09, 2013, 04:44:53 PM
And, follow up question: would those new players care that game doesn't have hure official events and is heavily house ruled [considering these rules are contained in one compendium?]

Players I have introduced to the game didn't, nothing wrong in fan made rules as long as they make game fun.
I try to promote the game locally, with some success even, and from where I stand, finishing BFG:R is a way to help it. Having all the rules in one place, without additional FAQ's and million separate pdf's with various part of the same fleet will really make it clearer for the new guys. When there is one solid block containing rules, promoting the game will be easier. Someone asks where he can find the rules, we answer 'here'. No additional explanation is needed.

Same with events: GW will not make them. So if there are to be some, we will have to organise them ourselves. So again, which rules it will use is up to us, and having more balanced, clear rules in one place looks like a superior option.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: afterimagedan on March 09, 2013, 04:58:01 PM
Agreed completely. That's why I am excited for Gorlak to get those rules done as well as finish BFG:R.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: BaronIveagh on March 09, 2013, 06:50:43 PM
So it's just as unofficial as BFG:R.

Incorrect.  It's still handed down by the official rules committee.

Yeah, BFG community isn't really doing much to promote the game to the broader audience, but really, what would it  change? We are not getting official update, nevermind how popular the game will get now. And if we do get it, seeing what happnes to the 40k rules and setting now, we will wish we didn't.

... the nicest response I have to this violates no fewer than 10 of this forums rules.

To summerize it in the most polite manner possible:

I'd rather die on my feet than die on my knees, you pathetic coward.

Is anyone really bothered that wargaming community has barely heard about his game?

Yes.

Yeah, BFG:R is just a pretty house rule compendium, but for most of the player base, this game is never really played outside of the house.

That would require you to have the spine to leave your parent's basement.

Let me summarize what I just heard you selling, Khar:  'Let's just surrender!  It's better to die on our knees in the gutter than to resist!" 

For the Love of the Emperor, grow some balls, people!  Have some FIRE in your bellies!  'Let's die like pathetic worms under boot' is NOT an option!

I feel like, when I chat with some of you, that I'm a space marine surrounded by PDF troopers.  The ones not actively trying to commit suicide are trying to find someplace to hide while the tyranids pour over the wall.

How much does it cost to start a professional tournament, 100k?  200k?
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: afterimagedan on March 09, 2013, 07:48:25 PM
Baron's hallucinating again. Just disregard the last post,  he totally misunderstood you and is starting a flame way. Just don't pay attention and hopefully the outbursts will stop.  ::)
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: BaronIveagh on March 09, 2013, 09:56:36 PM
Baron's hallucinating again. Just disregard the last post,  he totally misunderstood you and is starting a flame way. Just don't pay attention and hopefully the outbursts will stop.  ::)

No, I'm serious.  We need to stop having this defeatist attitude about things.  It only makes shit worse and I get pissed off every time I see it.

And, seriously, how much does a large scale tournament series cost?  I figure that the grand prize is probably about 30k but there's advertising, and space costs.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: afterimagedan on March 09, 2013, 10:59:14 PM
He's just saying what he believes are facts, Baron. In fact, I think he's a pretty motivated contributor here. Baron, are you in the USA?
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: Khar on March 10, 2013, 01:30:38 AM
First, I have to clarify i'm not in the slightest offended. You, good sir, just misunderstood. Trying not to risk prolonged and potentially uncivil discussion, I'll just repeat my point in shorter form:

I don't feel defeated. None of us is defeated. I's just that I feel we are what is left. No one will help in bringing BFG to former glory, if we want to win, we must win by ourselves. There will be no official update, GW wil not put FAQ on their site, no. I don't believe it could happen. Therefore, all work is to be done by us. We must repair what is broken in the rules, make them into one document that will make introducing new players easier and, well, introduce new players. And from there, it's small steps forward, one new player a time. In this order. First rules, then popularity.

And it can be done, it's just that... I don't think anyone will do it if people here won't.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: BaronIveagh on March 10, 2013, 01:56:56 AM
Baron, are you in the USA?

Yes.  At the moment.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: horizon on March 10, 2013, 08:01:16 PM
That GW is leaving BFG alone is a blessing.

Models are still being sold.
Rules are left alone. Yes they frigged the FAQ (a reason we are no longer seeing Ray, Nate and Bob around) by not uploading it.
But if GW started effectively adressing BFG themselves the game could see changes none of us would like to see.

The current BFG ruleset is playable.
People who use the FAQ use it, or bits of it. Same with other fanrules.

Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: BaronIveagh on March 10, 2013, 10:17:37 PM
Models are still being sold.

Until the molds fail.  You might notice that the list of ones available has been slowly getting smaller.  GW appears to be quietly phasing them out as the molds fail and back stock sells out.  Sword even fell off the site for a month, but came back. 

Further the quality of the minis has been declining as well, with increasing flash and mold lines.

While it's all well and good to say that it's a good thing that GW is abandoning the game, the reality is taht it pretty much seals BFGs fate and consigns it to the dust bin.  Maybe in 20 years they'll release a special limited edition like they did with Space Hulk, but on the whole it leaves the community high and dry. 

Unless you LIKE paying $35 per Nicassar Dhow.  I'm sure some of us will make some good money fast when they finally announce BFG's discontinuation.  But it's still no good for the game and means hat we'll see fewer and fewer new players.
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: afterimagedan on March 10, 2013, 10:22:16 PM
Who's having the defeatist attitude now...
Title: Re: BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?
Post by: BaronIveagh on March 11, 2013, 01:26:40 AM
Who's having the defeatist attitude now...

Not being defeatist in the least.  Just pointing out that 'Games Workshop Ignoring us is a good thing' is absolutely wrong headed, as 'They might make rules we don't like' is clearly trumped by 'They will stop producing the minis and send prices through the roof'. 

Having just had to replace a fleet, I can tell you it's not as cheap as it used to be, even with the help of some posters here.