The Specialist Arms Forum

Battlefleet Gothic => [BFG] Discussion => Topic started by: Gorlak on February 20, 2013, 10:15:34 PM

Title: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on February 20, 2013, 10:15:34 PM
Hello all!

I have been considering for some time now putting together a version of the main BFG rulebook that incorporates all those changes that where made in FAQ 2010, authoring it as a full high quality PDF as a sort of 'Community Edition' or some such. Similar to what Necromunda has done with their Community Edition, I believe. When introducing my friends (who used to play 40k etc) to these games, having a single source of the rules has made it a much easier process, as well as being more straight forward for anyone really.

I helped out Plaxor when he was developing the latter stages of BFG:R (something I was very keen on) and put together the first few pages of what was then the BFG:R rulebook, or Book 1. I still have those files, even though the intent and scope of that particular part of the project has now stopped.

Following the amazing work done by afterimagedan in getting BFG:R off the ground again, I wanted to put together this combined rulebook for use in my games. If others want it, I'm sure it can be shared. No idea how long it will take mind, so don't hold your breath! ;)

What I am interested in though is if anyone has the original BBB rulebook text as digital/standalone text? I have used Adobe Acrobat to OCR the text in the GW PDF (scan and recognise the images as selectable text, basically) but because of the font used, it introduces MANY errors into the text.

Before I start laying things out in InDesign (I'm an architect by trade so I have used that program most weeks for the last 5-6 years) it would be great to get all the text together in a word doc or similar, ready to paste in. I wanted to ask if anyone has the text already perhaps? If not, its back to the OCR and typing I think!

Cheers,
H



UPDATE: (27/03/2013)

I am putting links to the relevant documents here in the first post for ease of reference. These will be updated/superseded as I get to them.

The reference documents are:
1_ BFG_(GW)_Basic Rules.pdf                 - available from GW website (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat480005a&categoryId=6700003a&section=&aId=21500018a)
2_ BFG_(GW)_Advanced Rules.pdf          - available from GW website (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat480005a&categoryId=6700003a&section=&aId=21500018a)
3_ BFG_(FAQ2010).pdf                                - available on Google Drive, from here (https://docs.google.com/#folders/0Bw_dULEfC3rbYzUyNjQzZTAtMDZiMS00ZjRlLWJjNzMtYTE5YmNjZjdjODQ1) - need a Google account to access
4_ BFGR_(Plaxor Beta v1.6).pdf                 - linked to for those that haven't seen it before (https://www.dropbox.com/s/4pwpmc2s5hufs02/BFGR_%28Plaxor%20Beta%20v1.6%29_OCR.pdf) - recommend 'right click > Save as...' for this

And here they are as Word/Text only documents:
1_ BFG (GW)_Basic Rules Text_130321 (COMPLETE).docx (https://www.dropbox.com/s/4h8gser9c9yh36e/BFG%20%28GW%29_Basic%20Rules%20Text_130321%20%28COMPLETE%29.docx)
2_ BFG (GW)_Advanced Rules Text_130327 (COMPLETE).docx (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ngc9bf45rs5aoid/BFG%20%28GW%29_Advanced%20Rules%20Text_130327%20%28COMPLETE%29.docx)
3_ BFG (FAQ2010)_Text_130321 (COMPLETE).docx (https://www.dropbox.com/s/1h8phvm4eub9hp5/BFG%20%28FAQ2010%29_Text_130321%20%28COMPLETE%29.docx)
4_ BFGR_(Plaxor Beta)_Rule Book Text_130316 (COMPLETE).docx (https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqtfwdsfhxbb924/BFGR_%28Plaxor%20Beta%29_Rule%20Book%20Text_130316%20%28COMPLETE%29.docx)


UPDATE: (06/05/2013)

Here is the link to the first (very) work-in-progress segment:
130506_BFGR_Combined Rulebook_WIP DRAFT.pdf (https://www.dropbox.com/s/foug6p9ipkui7w5/130506_BFGR_Combined%20Rulebook_WIP%20DRAFT.pdf)

This only takes us up to the Special Orders section (no one said this was an easy process!) and is intended for inital feedback and to let others know what direction the document is heading.
Title: Rulebook Text
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 20, 2013, 11:10:37 PM
I don't think I know enough to be helpful from a technical perspective, but I fully support this project. If there's anything I can do to help out, please let me know right away!
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: afterimagedan on February 20, 2013, 11:34:35 PM
You know I'm up for it! G chat me sometime !
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Zhukov on February 21, 2013, 01:28:42 PM

+1 to making one fixed rulebook. I always find it annoying to carry around the BBB and lengthy FAQ. Not to mention all the individual fleet lists...

Mind you, keep any revisions from BFG:R out of this document. Not many people in the BFG community play that set of rules.

-Zhukov
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: BaronIveagh on February 21, 2013, 04:36:38 PM
I made a single compiled version of the FAQ a while ago for Dark Reign.  Atm our main site is down for rebuilding, but the user submitted material is stored for public access.

http://mmsprofiler.com/PDF/BFG%20FAQ%202010.pdf


As far as merging it, the rulebook, and Armageddon into a single revised text... I really have not had the spare time.

The other question: should we include IA X material?  I know a lot of people use the character ships, but the fleet lists need to be changed to fit the 'standard' IN/SM format and ship requirements for fleets.  (I, surprisingly, have no issue about the 'any' rule they have, but it makes reserves redundant)
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on February 21, 2013, 06:46:50 PM
Thanks for the feedback all!

BaronIveagh: Thank you for the link! I downloaded that and it seems this is the various documents that make up the 2010 Compendium?

My aim really is to have a single document that is, in essence, just a rule book. This would merge the BBB rules and those comments/changes of FAQ 2010, where possible. This can then be used with Compendium 2010 lists, original lists (BBB) or BFGR lists as desired.

Personally, I will be using it with those lists/documents being put together now as BFGR. Therefore, and ultimately, I will have a folder of documents that looks like:

BFG  - 00 - Rulebook (2010).pdf
BFGR - 01 - Imperial Navy.pdf
BFGR - 02 - Chaos Fleets.pdf
BFGR - 03 - Space Marine Fleets.pdf
BFGR - 04 - Adeptus Mechanicus Fleets.pdf
BFGR - 05 - Eldar Fleets (MMS v1.9b).pdf
BFGR - 06 - Dark Eldar Fleets.pdf
BFGR - 07 - Ork Fleets.pdf
BFGR - 08 - Tau Empire Fleets.pdf
BFGR - 09 - Necron Fleets.pdf
BFGR - 10 - Tyranid Hive Fleets.pdf
BFGR - 11 - Planetary Defenses.pdf

Any further documents that the community puts out can then be added (scenarios, fleets, etc) including perhaps, an IA X document also.

The hard part will definitely be combining the text and laying it all out for the Rulebook document. It would certainly be useful to perhaps have people check, proof read, and generally scour that document once its in reasonable shape, to discover the inevitable mistakes that will creep in...
I'm trying a different OCR method in Acrobat now, will see if that has any more success. I'll try to mock up the first few pages with what was already put together for BFGR to see what people think.

Cheers,
H
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on February 21, 2013, 07:44:05 PM
It might be worth the effort to get an new faq up too. No new rules or anything like the faq2010, just a straight q&a.

The other issue of course is that the rule "fixes" in 2010 are as bad or worse than 1.0 in many cases.
Title: Rulebook Text
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 21, 2013, 07:46:12 PM
It might be worth the effort to get an new faq up too. No new rules or anything like the faq2010, just a straight q&a.

The other issue of course is that the rule "fixes" in 2010 are as bad or worse than 1.0 in many cases.

That may be an issue for BFG:R. This is just a reframe & compilation, not a rewrite.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on February 21, 2013, 07:49:44 PM
Thats fine, im just saying if your going to compile everything put a q&a at the end with the 3 years worth of questikns 2010 brought up. You dont have to fix anything most people already ignore what they dont like anyway ;).
Title: Rulebook Text
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 21, 2013, 08:15:09 PM
Here's a contribution I can make: I'll be your alpha reader, if you'll have me. Send me your drafts and I'll identify the problems.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on February 21, 2013, 11:19:37 PM
Well, having spent all evening having a first stab at it, I'm now at 10,367 words, and on the first page of 'The Ordnance Phase'. I think my eyes are bleeding. ;)

To give you an idea of the type of thing the text recognition funtion throws up, this the the Notes text from Catastrophic Damage, p26

Quote
Ntlla: Blazing or drifting ludk.s will block linu of.fire tlult
paslt over their ha&e, tiMe to the cloud& of \le1lling gtlltltU and
tkbm they protiuc4. Lilulwi3e torpetkM1t which ~ttriks a lllllk
wiU ddcmote (ue the ~ rvk1t for more thtail.J on
to1pedoes). If a hull mjfer11 any hil.r, roll 011 the
Catastrophic lJalflage table agohl. Blazillg or d.ri}ti1tg hulb
have 110 Shields, :nureu value or similar m.eclumism (lih
Holofield.s) ill rmy TUJNICI. Hulllt can 11tiU be boarded or
qeted by llhooti1tg by e_, vessels, USIIally ill the 1wpu
that they wiU uplotk and cause vast harm to your eMIIIletl
U11e the dertmyetl11mp'11 Annmu val~ to roUfor hits. Hulk.r
may be ignored if they are the clomt target."

To be fair, thats a particularly bad bit that made me laugh, but there are errors in most of it when copying. I'm snagging them as I go, but I'm sure some will slip through.

ElectricPaladin; your a hero. ;) I'm working on getting a complete set of the GW 'original' rules into text first, then FAQ 2010, then the merge can begin! Somewhat daunting at the moment...

Here is a link to what I have so far (https://www.dropbox.com/s/d7lsbfc15mxcnhp/BFG%20Rule%20Book%20Text_130222.docx)

I assume linking to this is ok as the rulebook is publicly available?  ???

Cheers,
H
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on February 21, 2013, 11:51:17 PM
There ill  a list of some of the most famous ships that fought in the Gothic War in the Ships of the Gothic Sector section, so feel free to use those or make up your own.

Third sentence lol, seriously tho I know theres plenty of people here that will help proof read and such, myself included.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: afterimagedan on February 22, 2013, 01:42:03 AM
myself included.

Same here.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: BaronIveagh on February 22, 2013, 02:05:31 AM
Thats fine, im just saying if your going to compile everything put a q&a at the end with the 3 years worth of questikns 2010 brought up. You dont have to fix anything most people already ignore what they dont like anyway ;).

The problem with that is when you go to one of the rare tourneys and they aren't ignoring.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 22, 2013, 03:26:24 AM
ElectricPaladin; your a hero. ;) I'm working on getting a complete set of the GW 'original' rules into text first, then FAQ 2010, then the merge can begin! Somewhat daunting at the moment...

I'm going to wait until there's an entire first draft to look at. I know my tolerance for proofreading, and it's best for me to have an entire product I can attack all at once. In the meantime, take a break, have a drink. You're doing the work of the angels!
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Duke on February 22, 2013, 07:13:23 AM
Catastrophic Jalflage table agoh!  ;D

I dunno if there's a rep system on here, but +1 to you sir! I've been scanning minutiae between the GW pdfs and the 2010FAQ, as well as the ADmech one, and this would've helped from the start! A beginner friendly solution is the right one.

Good luck,
Duke
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on February 22, 2013, 07:26:41 AM
Catastrophic Jalflage table agoh!  ;D

Its childish, but the worst is Burn Retros - Acrobat keeps seeing that as Bum Retros...  :o

I'll hopefully get some more time in tomorrow morning and will let you know where I get to.

Thank you for the kind words!

H
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: BaronIveagh on February 22, 2013, 02:25:09 PM
Why not just use hte PDFs from FAQ 2007?
Title: Rulebook Text
Post by: ElectricPaladin on March 15, 2013, 07:23:41 PM
How's the project coming along?
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on March 20, 2013, 12:29:31 PM
My apologies for a lack of update on this. Work and other commitments have been challenging for the time needed for this... I also wanted to have a good chunk of progress done before releasing to the community, even at this early stage.

That said, progress is being made. I have three documents I am working to get converted into Word.docx format, ready to be dissected by those interested.
The three documents are:
BFG_(GW)_Basic Rules.pdf
BFG_(FAQ2010).pdf
BFGR_(Plaxor Beta v1.6).pdf

The BFGR document is done (all 30000 words of it...!) and FAQ2010 and BFG(GW) are both well on the way. I can make the BFGR document available later today if that is of use? I personally think this is the best of the documents as it ties things together quite well, particularly the use of 'Special Qualities' similar in function to USR in 40k.

Also, thank you for the prompting about this - please do keep that up if I'm being slow!  8) I will try and keep this moving forward.

Afterimagedan - do you have any thoughts at this stage on moving this process (of main rulebook development) forward?
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: afterimagedan on March 20, 2013, 04:03:04 PM
Thanks for the update! Personally, I would like to see (for my personal use) the GW rules with integrated 2010FAQ and also the Plaxor BFG:R rules. I haven't honestly looked that far in the future to see if rules discussions are something people will want to discuss when fleets are all done. Maybe that is something that someone else will have to facilitate.  ;)  I am personally highly content to use the 2010FAQ and original rules (though I think there are a couple flaws) and use the new BFG:R fleets.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Neferhet on March 20, 2013, 04:10:22 PM
That would be great! When you put that online, i'll gladly proof read it. There is such a mess with all those Rb, armada book and faq's...
Keep it going!
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: horizon on March 20, 2013, 04:51:58 PM
The worst thing about the plaxor bfg:r version are the special qualities.  ::)
IMO that is.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on March 21, 2013, 08:13:19 PM
Right, the first task - getting the basic documents into word format for editing - is nearly there. I'd like to share with everyone the first three documents that I have been working on and are now completely transferred into Word format.

As mentioned before, these documents are:
1_ BFG_(GW)_Basic Rules.pdf  (just the basic rules so far, I'm moving onto the Advanced Rules now)
2_ BFG_(FAQ2010).pdf
3_ BFGR_(Plaxor Beta v1.6).pdf (https://www.dropbox.com/s/4pwpmc2s5hufs02/BFGR_%28Plaxor%20Beta%20v1.6%29_OCR.pdf)   (linked to for those that haven't seen it before)

And here they are as word documents:
1_ BFG (GW)_Basic Rules Text_130321 (COMPLETE).docx (https://www.dropbox.com/s/4h8gser9c9yh36e/BFG%20%28GW%29_Basic%20Rules%20Text_130321%20%28COMPLETE%29.docx)
2_ BFG (FAQ2010)_Text_130321 (COMPLETE).docx (https://www.dropbox.com/s/1h8phvm4eub9hp5/BFG%20%28FAQ2010%29_Text_130321%20%28COMPLETE%29.docx)
3_ BFGR_(Plaxor Beta)_Rule Book Text_130316 (COMPLETE).docx (https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqtfwdsfhxbb924/BFGR_%28Plaxor%20Beta%29_Rule%20Book%20Text_130316%20%28COMPLETE%29.docx)

The BFGR (Plaxor Beta) document has had the most work done to it beyond the copy-and-paste of text; combining duplicate entries, simple formatting so that it is clear, etc. All this is very much a first pass though.

The next stage will be to combine FAQ2010 and GW Rulebook into a single, unified document, BFGR (Plaxor) is included as a reference and may have formed the basis of a new BFGR Rulebook (to go along with the new fleet lists being done) if the community wanted it. I suspect that the combined FAQ2010 & GW Rulebook will actually be whats desired though. This looks like it will be harder than I first thought, but still worth aiming for I think! ;) The dream of a 'BFG: Community Edition' will live on!

Let me know your thoughts on what should/shouldn't be included etc. or perhaps what issues anyone can forsee coming by merging these two documents. I am concerned that the very descriptive (i.e. long) text from FAQ2010 may make it a formidable final document, but we'll see. Any and all thoughts at this early stage would be interesting to hear!

Cheers,
H
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: afterimagedan on March 21, 2013, 09:08:27 PM
I would recommend 2 documents:
1. Original rules + 2010
2. Plaxor's rules

Then, if it comes down to it, we can make that Community Edition. Either way, everyone will be able to benefit from the 2010 one.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Neferhet on March 21, 2013, 09:32:04 PM
I would recommend 2 documents:
1. Original rules + 2010
2. Plaxor's rules

Then, if it comes down to it, we can make that Community Edition. Either way, everyone will be able to benefit from the 2010 one.

I'm totally with afterimagedan.
Plus, the links above seems to be broken. Or it's just me??
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on March 21, 2013, 10:08:25 PM

Plus, the links above seems to be broken. Or it's just me??


Fixed. Apologies for that, got my code slightly wrong.

H

Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Neferhet on March 21, 2013, 10:24:18 PM
perfect. thank you

Edit: After some work on the basic rule for merging with the faq, I think that i'll be waiting for the Advanced rules. this way I can do something more complete.
keep it going man, i'll wait!  ;D
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on March 27, 2013, 11:25:13 AM
The Advanced Rules are very nearly there now, just one more page of Squadron rules to do and a double check to ensure everything's covered and I'll upload it. That should be today, hopefully.

I'll also update the first post to keep the most current version of the documents linked at the start of the discussion.

UPDATE:

As promised, here are the (GW) Advanced Rules, in text only format:

BFG (GW)_Advanced Rules Text_130327 (COMPLETE).docx (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ngc9bf45rs5aoid/BFG%20%28GW%29_Advanced%20Rules%20Text_130327%20%28COMPLETE%29.docx)

I will now put these links in the first post for reference.

The next task is to integrate FAQ2010 into the relevant sections of the GW Basic & Advanced rules. This will make certain text in the Basic & Advanced rules redundant - where that happens, I will strike through that text to identify it and for ease of review. I suspect that will take some time, but I will update as I go.

Thanks,
H
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Neferhet on March 27, 2013, 04:22:00 PM
Great. I'm working on it.
Just a question: in the upcoming Rules/faq merging, are we really going to keep the old basic rules/advanced rules division?
Title: Rulebook Text
Post by: ElectricPaladin on March 27, 2013, 04:37:27 PM
My Internet is down, so I won't be able to perform my alpha reader task until Thursday. Looking forward to it, though!
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: afterimagedan on March 27, 2013, 06:03:11 PM
It would be nice to see the basic - advanced divide gone.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on March 27, 2013, 06:04:03 PM
I've only just started the combining process and, as expected, its quite difficult. Deciding where each paragraph would be most relevant in a combined book is surprisingly tricky.

I can share a working folder with you which might make it easier to collaborate on this stage?

If sending you the current documents via another method would be of use, just let me know.

H
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on March 27, 2013, 06:07:17 PM
It would be nice to see the basic - advanced divide gone.

I do agree, but for now its more straight forward to take paragraphs from the FAQ and drop them into the relevant sections of either Basic or Advanced. I think intergrating the two after that will be more straight forward. Advanced includes only relatively short sections for Movement and End phase, the majority is Battlefield (terrain).

H
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: afterimagedan on March 27, 2013, 06:08:18 PM
Sounds great. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on March 27, 2013, 06:23:06 PM
I hate to be a debbie downer here but the basic/advanced divide is there for a good reason ;). It really does make teaching someone to play a ton easier without having the extras there. I would think at the very least if you combine them any advanced rules should be inside a labeled text box within their relevant sections and have a short disclaimer that they should be overlooked when starting out.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on March 27, 2013, 06:49:36 PM
...It really does make teaching someone to play a ton easier without having the extras there...

That is also partly the reason I didn't want to do that straight away. ;) I do kind of agree.

I'm a bit concerned that adding in all the (albeit very clear) text from FAQ2010 might make the 'Basic Rules' too formidable when introducing new players...

The alternative of course is a separate form of 'quick start' rule set, a short document that covers just the basics, and then a larger, 'full' rule book.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: afterimagedan on March 27, 2013, 07:13:03 PM
I hate to be a debbie downer here but the basic/advanced divide is there for a good reason ;). It really does make teaching someone to play a ton easier without having the extras there. I would think at the very least if you combine them any advanced rules should be inside a labeled text box within their relevant sections and have a short disclaimer that they should be overlooked when starting out.

I think the divide is there with good intentions, but not good reason. It's annoying. You may learn the rules better the first game or two with that divide (though I don't think it would be all that much harder with them combined), but then you have the annoying divide forever. Most people I know that play read the full rulebook first and didn't attempt the game without reading the advanced rules section.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Neferhet on March 27, 2013, 08:39:27 PM
The idea of a merged rulebook & quick start document seems really good!
 A little bit more work required perhaps...
Anyway I dare to post here a link to the mess i've done with the faq merging in the rules (don't want to steal your idea or work, mate!)
It's a little bit messy and "embrional" but I think it can help(?)
Everything I added is highlighted in yellow.
There were some minor writing errors. Where i saw those, i removed.
Adding the complete wording from the faq really makes talking about Basic/Advanced a non sense.
Its a text wall here and there...
I was thinking about having an area of the rulebook where each peculiar case or clarification could be written. In the relevant chapter we could have a box saying : "for peculiar cases and clarification see page XX, issue number Y". Just an idea.
Here it is.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4uh9148apu0pzxc/rulebook%20merged%20with%20faq%20%28Basic%20%2B%20Adv%29.odt
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on March 27, 2013, 10:22:06 PM
Neferhet - Ha! Thats excellent! We seem to have done the same thing! While there was some down time at work today, I made a start doing the very same thing. It will be very interesting to see where we match and where we don't.

My (barely started) version is here:
 Gorlak_Basic Rules + FAQ2010_130327.docx (https://www.dropbox.com/s/jgvvv0gwid08r1c/Gorlak_Basic%20Rules%20%2B%20FAQ2010_130327.docx)

I've had the briefest of glances at yours and it looks good, exactly the sort of thing I was thinking. I assume you used the text documents I posted up here? I certainly hope so - they took many hours to do (on and off) so I'd like to see them being used well!  :)

I'll try and compare and contrast yours and mine when I get the chance. I'm keeping a record of what from FAQ2010 I've used (so far) as well, which can be used to make any reviews easier/clearer.

H

EDIT

Actually, yours looks really good! I'm having a closer look at it and you've done exactly what I was hoping to do! I definitely wouldn't take this as stealing my idea or work, its supposed to be a community project anyway! I just wanted to (at least) get the ball rolling by getting the tedious job of converting to text out the way. That makes it all FAR more accessible.

I'm beginning to think a shared folder (via Dropbox) might be in order for those that are interested in helping out? That way we can all see as we develop files/work collaboratively on a single 'master' rule book.

Once we are happy with the combined book, I'll start the process of putting it into our own InDesign document with all the pictures and niceties one can expect.  :D
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: fracas on March 28, 2013, 01:23:00 AM
tremendous work you are doing
thanks
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Neferhet on March 28, 2013, 08:14:47 AM
Neferhet - Ha! Thats excellent! We seem to have done the same thing! While there was some down time at work today, I made a start doing the very same thing. It will be very interesting to see where we match and where we don't.

My (barely started) version is here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4bqxrh8dal287tk/BFG_Basic%20Rules%20%2B%20FAQ2010_130327.docx

I've had the briefest of glances at yours and it looks good, exactly the sort of thing I was thinking. I assume you used the text documents I posted up here? I certainly hope so - they took many hours to do (on and off) so I'd like to see them being used well!  :)

I'll try and compare and contrast yours and mine when I get the chance. I'm keeping a record of what from FAQ2010 I've used (so far) as well, which can be used to make any reviews easier/clearer.

H

EDIT

Actually, yours looks really good! I'm having a closer look at it and you've done exactly what I was hoping to do! I definitely wouldn't take this as stealing my idea or work, its supposed to be a community project anyway! I just wanted to (at least) get the ball rolling by getting the tedious job of converting to text out the way. That makes it all FAR more accessible.

I'm beginning to think a shared folder (via Dropbox) might be in order for those that are interested in helping out? That way we can all see as we develop files/work collaboratively on a single 'master' rule book.

Once we are happy with the combined book, I'll start the process of putting it into our own InDesign document with all the pictures and niceties one can expect.  :D
I'm glad to hear that!
Yes, I used your text documents. They where excellent.
The shared folder could really work, but should be used "cum grano salis" (with some rules to respect, since it will be open)
Next days I'll be mainly offline. Holydays :)
All ahead full!
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on March 28, 2013, 11:08:26 AM
I'm glad to hear that!
Yes, I used your text documents. They where excellent.
The shared folder could really work, but should be used "cum grano salis" (with some rules to respect, since it will be open)
Next days I'll be mainly offline. Holydays :)
All ahead full!

Glad to hear it! I will set up a working shared folder between you, Dan and myself for now and anyone else who wants to help can comment here.

One quick question - does your combined text use all the content from FAQ2010? As I was doing mine I was noting what I'd used and what I'd eventually come back to. Yours looks pretty comprehensive, but I didn;t want to go through and cross check that everything was included...!

tremendous work you are doing
thanks

Thank you! I think we are well on the way to having one central rulebook for gameplay, which is great. As I've said in this thread before, I think the nature of having rules spread over multiple volumes was really holding BFG back somewhat, so to have a central resource will be ideal.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Neferhet on March 28, 2013, 11:31:41 AM
Writing from phone. I ve the original faq document with the remaining parts I haven't used. I'll share that too when on pc.  ;)
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on March 28, 2013, 11:46:57 AM
Writing from phone. I ve the original faq document with the remaining parts I haven't used. I'll share that too when on pc.  ;)

I've just PM'd you about setting up a shared folder to make sharing and editing these docs a bit easier.

Cheers,
H
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Neferhet on March 29, 2013, 03:41:34 PM
Answered to your PM ;)
This is the Faq document absent the text i've used in the merging.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v6zecdkt2gkasxd/BFG%20%28FAQ2010%29_Text_130321%20%28COMPLETE%29boot.odt

This is instead a draft of a document without any division between basic and advanced:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rvviqrfhrxdq01e/rulebook%20merged%20with%20faq%20no%20division.odt

EDIT: I've uploaded to the shared folder this last file above, plus another one, called Rulebook_nodivision_example highlights.
Your rule merging is really neat and clear, while mine is a text wall. I was trying to fix this.
I thought to separate (in boxes near text or something similar) the more peculiar issues of many rules from the main wording. This, in the final version, could be really easy to do and could give a faster way to find a clarification to a peculiar case than to having to sort that out from a mile long paragraph. Maybe in that way we should be able to keep a good amount of text from the faq without losing rules and clarifications. What do you think?
P.S. sorry for my bad phrase construction.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Neferhet on April 02, 2013, 11:08:11 AM
Hi everyone. I am beginning to smooth any text issue i'm encountering during the reading.
The document used is the last pdf I've shared.
This doesn't mean that the merging is almos done.
I'm just eliminating repetitions and similar things.
I'm trying to give the text a more smooth look.
I will try to collect into textboxes all the "examples in green" that where previously highlighted.
This will happen at the end of the "Alpha proofreading".
I would really love to hear something from you guys.
Cheers.

EDIT: this is the result. The text in green should be "boxed" in the final document.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5jgihxvq23y2vjy/neferhet_proofreading_green_boxes.odt
(today i'm totally skipping on real life, it appears... )
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on April 02, 2013, 10:56:37 PM
(Neferhet - I've replied via email as well, but here is a simplified version so others can see what's happening)

I've tried opening the file 'Neferhet_130402_proofreading_green boxes.odt' and it says it can't be opened as its 'corrupt'. I doubt it somehow, its probably because I'm using MS Word and your using Open Office. Can you perhaps save them as a .doc type format? I think Open Office is better at this than Word is. I want to make sure I'm not missing anything. Your document 'Neferhet_130329_rulebook merged with faq_no division.odt'

I really like your idea of keeping the clarifications and examples in some way boxed-out or identified to break it up from the wall of text you can sometimes get, especially with the FAQ2010 stuff.

Ive only been able to get a quick look at your two most recent documents, but so far I think the best one is the 'Neferhet_130329_rulebook merged with faq_no division.odt'. That seems really clear and integrates things well. I think keeping all the additions from FAQ2010 (and omissions from the rules, for duplicates etc.) is key to keeping everyone on board and being clear about what we're doing. I tried this with my first attempt at a merged document, with additions from FAQ2010 in green, and omissions in strike through red

This is some really great work you've been getting in on this, its really apprecaited! I know all to well how it can suck in your real life time! ;) I reckon between us we can get this thing into great shape. I'll try and get some more time to review the documents and get some better feedback together. Would you mind having a look at how we can both edit and view documents in our two programs? That would be great.

And no need to worry about your phrase construction, it seems pretty good to me. Much better than my Italian!

Cheers,
H
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Neferhet on April 03, 2013, 10:03:14 AM
Hi Gorlak, I've emailed you.
Maybe we can have the file
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hta635vvo9653rs/Neferhet_rulebook_no%20division.odt
proofreaded for some rules checking and other opinions.

Everybody should be aware that it is possible to see wich part of the Faq document have not been used from this file:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v6zecdkt2gkasxd/BFG%20%28FAQ2010%29_Text_130321%20%28COMPLETE%29boot.odt  (if you need a .doc file just PM me)

My "ultimate" version is this, with a double proofread and a single rules check (but I'm no rules expert. We definitely need someone like Afterimagedan or Horizon or fracas to rulecheck this out),
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rrl3eb8vi36x0yz/neferhet_130403_proofreading_green_boxes.doc
but here I highlighted only the Green Boxes, so it's no longer possible to see what part I took from the Faq.
My bad here.

EDIT: Note that this file is an elaboration of the "Neferhet_rulebook_no division" one.

About the boxing out thing:  until now i've kept those parts just in green. Maybe when we have a beta version of the document we can try something more audacious and go for real text boxes.

I think that I can speak even for you, Gorlak, when I say that we are looking forward to hear other people opinion and have some rules checking and proofreading.  ;)
Cheers
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on April 03, 2013, 07:40:45 PM
Hi all,

I'll put a post up in the forum to ask for proofreaders and rules checkers to have a read if they can, I think we need that feedback asap.

For the boxing out of examples and clarifications, I like this idea for the final document, but this 'text-only' document should probably just focus on the content and the quality/clarity of the writing. The process of putting it into Indesign to match the style of the original books will be the stage that formatting and layout will be applied, mainly by the nature of how those programs work. That process will be easier if this text only document is limited to regular, bold and italic text that is in continuous blocks of text.

That said, (!) I think its a very good idea to mark this up with colour and highlights to keep track of what we're doing and were each bit of text has come from etc.

For those who are interested, please see do grab a copy of this text, merged by Neferhet, and have a read:
neferhet_130403_proofreading_green_boxes.doc - superseded
neferhet_130417_proofreading_green_boxes.doc (https://www.dropbox.com/s/o11ugpzcz51ny0a/neferhet_130417_proofreading_green_boxes.doc)

Any and all feedback and comments are welcome, which ideally and most helpfully would be input directly into the document itself (using tracked changes or another colour etc) to make intergrating these things easier.

Thanks all!
H
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Neferhet on April 16, 2013, 08:40:47 AM
So, has anybody checked the document?
Gorlak told me he was willing to begin the InDesign formatting within 2 weeks.
Any opinion, ruleschecking and grammarchecking is totally welcome!
If you spot something, please, let me know :)
Cheers
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on May 06, 2013, 01:03:12 PM
Hello all!

Well after a rather long hiatus due mostly to work, I have started on putting this text into Indesign to bring it up to the presentation standard we all would like. The link to the first (very) work-in-progress segment is as follows:
130506_BFGR_Combined Rulebook_WIP DRAFT.pdf - superseded

This only takes us up to the Special Orders section (no one said this was an easy process!) and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it so far. It should give you an idea of the format and where we are taking the document. I am trying to be as faithful to the original document as possible, but naturally as some sections have substantially more text in them some formatting will have to change.

The last page includes a mock-up I did of a ship page for the later (much, much later most likely!) formatting of any fleet lists, as required.

Hope everyone is having a good long weekend!
Cheers,
H
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: afterimagedan on May 07, 2013, 07:02:31 AM
I think it looks awesome. Can't wait for the time when I have have it printed and have a nice book! Great work and thank you!
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Neferhet on May 07, 2013, 10:16:15 AM
Gorlak. This. is. Amazing.
Title: Rulebook Text
Post by: Armiger84 on May 07, 2013, 06:55:09 PM
I have a transatlantic flight coming up on Friday.  I already have the GW pdfs and the 2010 FAQ on my smartphone, so I'll download whatever the most recent copy is Friday morning and bring a steno pad & pen ;)
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: AndrewChristlieb on May 07, 2013, 08:03:29 PM
Do I need an accout for this? I cant seem to pull up the spiffy newness.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: horizon on May 07, 2013, 08:32:27 PM
No, I can view the dropbox file without signing in.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on May 09, 2013, 12:27:29 AM
Slight update, managed to squeeze in some time today.

130508_BFGR_Combined Rulebook_WIP DRAFT.pdf (https://www.dropbox.com/s/lju6o01x3yvtauw/130508_BFGR_Combined%20Rulebook_WIP%20DRAFT.pdf) is now available to have a look at.

This takes up to the front page of the Shooting section. There are several pages that are too text heavy in my opinion and I will be adding in little pictures or quotes etc. to break that up a bit as I go along. Tweaks like that seem to go better when returning to it afresh. Thank you for the kind words! Looking forward to any feedback incoming.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Neferhet on May 09, 2013, 10:32:37 AM
Great! A quick thing I've noted. Page 21: the image and text is mirrored :)
keep it going!
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on May 09, 2013, 10:38:46 AM
Great! A quick thing I've noted. Page 21: the image and text is mirrored :)
keep it going!

Ha! When I got to that I thought 'that will be a quick page to do, just flip the image so it works on the left.' Didn't actually look at the text! Cheers for the heads up, I'll sort that in the next update.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Khar on May 10, 2013, 11:19:50 PM
This looks so great.. Seeing actual BFG:R rulebook makes recent events concerning specialist games seem more like a new beginning than an end.
Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: blekinge on May 19, 2014, 04:18:19 PM
This project seems to have died, so I have taken it up.

The OPs dropbox links are dead, so I am starting from scratch. The plan is to recreate the rulebook in LibreOffice. There is should be relatively easy to edit and change stuff.

I have OCRed the basic rules with tesseract, and imported this. The explanatory images have been extracted with Gimp, while the flavour images have been ditched for now.

The basic rules are almost complete. When complete, I will share them with you, which should be in a day or two.

Next step will be the advanced rules. After that, I will try to work the FAQ 2010 changes into the document.
Title: Rulebook Text
Post by: frogbear on May 20, 2014, 06:25:27 AM
:)
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: blekinge on June 01, 2014, 10:13:02 PM
Now the 1.1 version of the Rulebook is complete. I did not keep to my original plan about doing this in stages. This is the, as far as I can tell, complete rulebook. Most of the flavour text is missing, and many of the flavour images. These will arrive in version 1.2. The book is a combination of The Basic Rules, The Advanced Rules, Torpedoes and Bombers from Armada, Mines, and the 2010 FAQ.
The Campaign and Refit system is not included yet, but will get there.
I hope some of you will find a use for this thing.

I know know that Libreoffice is an unstable piece of drek for such a task. There have been so many pagination crashes that it is beyond ridiculous. I think I have averaged 10 minutes between freezes. Ctrl-S is probably the key most often used on my keyboard by now.

Get the Pdf here (version 1.1)
http://bit.ly/TdjxOm

Get the in-progress libreoffice document here
http://bit.ly/1kxnbNj
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Gorlak on June 02, 2014, 12:23:56 AM
Hey Blekinge, great to see someone taking this up!

I am ashamed to say that real life has kept me very much away from BFG and continuing this project. Also, the change to Dropbox security settings means they closed all legacy links. I will look at getting those back up, but rest assured all the original files are still there. Sadly, I doubt I'll have any time to get into this myself but I would only be too happy to send you any and all files you might need. If you have access to Adobe Indesign software, I have the WIP books in that format just waiting to be finished off.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: OnTheLam on June 08, 2014, 03:42:12 AM
Just started collecting ships for this game and am looking forward to this updated rules set you are all working on!
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Neferhet on June 21, 2014, 09:05:37 AM
Thank you blekinge for taking this project over :)
it would be great to see it done.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: horizon on June 23, 2014, 10:29:03 AM
Good job. Keep it on.
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: blekinge on July 02, 2014, 12:14:20 AM
Version 1.3 of the rulebook is now done.

I have decided to include both the MSM and the MMS version of the Eldar rules. The MSM rules are included as the rules for Corsair Eldar, while the MMS rules are included as the Craftworld Eldar.
All (I hope) special rules for the Space Marines, Orks, Corsair Eldar, Craftworld Eldar should have been included, although I could have missed some.
I have changed to rules a bit to allow for 2 hit escorts, without explicitly stating whether or not an escort can have two hits. This was primarily just changing that crits do not kill escorts, they cause one hit, which will have the same effect on a 1 hit escort.
I have not worked in the other BFG:R changes (D3 hit thunderhawk annihilators or Locked on nova cannons) but these will come in the next version.

Rules could be wrong in places, so please post if you find any mistakes

A bit of flavour text is missing in places, and placeholders have been inserted.

The pdf version of the rules can be found here
http://bit.ly/1m6QMxG

and the open office version here
http://bit.ly/1qhP91Y
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Zergi on July 08, 2014, 06:00:05 PM
I would like to use my first post on these forums to thank all of you for the work you've put in on these Rulebooks! After casually following news about this game for years now I've finally decided to bite the bullet and learn how to play, and to try and persuade a few mates to join me. As a new player trying to learn the game one of the issues I'm finding is the lack of a single core resource that is -the- go to place. I've spent the better part of the last two days trawling multiple sites, forums and dead and outdated links collecting all the resources I can. These forums have been exceptionally helpful (especially horizon's posts thanks!).

Due to GW's removal of documents from their site finding simple things like templates for blast markers and the bearing compass has been extremely hard. I'm currently assembling a kit to print off that will allow me to give the game a go and see if I like it using a full set of ship, template and marker printouts that covers basically everything that would be in the original core box set. If I can get it to a quality I'm happy with I would love to post it up here for any other new players who want to give the game a go before putting down the cash.

Before I found this thread I was actually considering doing what you gentlemen are now working on, combining the original basic/advanced rules, Armada and the 2010 Compendium into a single all encompassing "official" rulebook for me and my friends to use. I love your work blekinge I just dont want to include the BFG:R updates (as some other forums I've been looking at seem to have a negative view on fanmade changes like the BFG:R). I would love to give you hand if possible in creating a central resource, the only thing holding me back from doing my own version is my current lack of understanding of the rules. So let me know if I can help out!
Title: Re: Rulebook Text
Post by: Dono1979 on August 05, 2014, 11:01:05 PM
Sorry I am a little lost, is this compilation incorporating BFG:R (which is a fan made version?) or is it just the compilation of last of the official rules?