December 15, 2017, 02:13:38 PM

Author Topic: Observation about 'partially defended' optional rule.  (Read 328 times)

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Offline Hammerskelp

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Observation about 'partially defended' optional rule.
« on: June 27, 2017, 03:05:10 PM »
"Partially Defended Units
This optional rule applies for units that have some of its stands in
defended positions but not all of them. When such a unit is
charged by an enemy, to speed things up, the whole target unit
counts as defended. However, the charger still gets his charging
bonuses."


So......... Picture a unit of 3 infantry with two stands completely in woods and its third stand partially outside. Would all stands of an infantry unit that charges it get '+1 charging in the open bonus'?   Even though charger and target stands might be completely inside woods? 
       
I took it for granted that you would only get your +1 charge bonus if you were charging the part of the unit that was outside the woods. (For example, cavalry charging bits of a unit 'hanging' out of woods.)   Re-reading the rule.... now I'm not so sure.   

Thoughts?   

Offline Aldhick

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Re: Observation about 'partially defended' optional rule.
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2017, 08:54:14 PM »
In your example the optional rule doesn't apply as all the stands are wholly or partially in dense terrain and therefore defended. The optional rule apply only when at least one stand is completely out of defended position and at least one is defended. In such case all the stans count as defended and all the charging stands have the charging bonus. At least that is how I understood the rule presented on the last international playtest weekend. Lex may correct me in case I undestood it wrong.
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Offline Lex

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Re: Observation about 'partially defended' optional rule.
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2017, 11:09:50 PM »
In your example the optional rule doesn't apply as all the stands are wholly or partially in dense terrain and therefore defended. The optional rule apply only when at least one stand is completely out of defended position and at least one is defended. In such case all the stans count as defended and all the charging stands have the charging bonus. At least that is how I understood the rule presented on the last international playtest weekend. Lex may correct me in case I undestood it wrong.

That is correct. To avoid "cheeky" positioning, we simply ruled that the units involved in such a combat both count their bonus/malus.

Offline Clawlessdragon

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Re: Observation about 'partially defended' optional rule.
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2017, 08:58:03 AM »
thanks for the clarification, it makes it easier to understand, maybe add the bit about 1 stand has to be wholly in, and 1 stand wholly out.
I've just re-read defended on page 53, and it talks about a 'stand' being defended, not the unit, therefore if a stand is wholly out the wood then it is in the open, the other 2 defended. Is this where the optional rule overrides the main rule if both players agree at the start, to simplify combat and treat the unit the same, rather than workout and split combat rolls between stands?

Offline flankyou

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Re: Observation about 'partially defended' optional rule.
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2017, 07:22:11 AM »
I'd say keep it simple: Either a unit is wholly/completely within which would be defended, or if any portion of any stand is not within then it's partially defended. If partially defended it get's the -1 to hit but counts as being in the open.

Offline Grimnir

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Re: Observation about 'partially defended' optional rule.
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2017, 01:29:47 PM »
Personally, I don't see the reason for this optional rule at all.

Standard rules are clear:
Stand is wholly or partially in a terrain or behind an obstacle - it's defended. Stand is not positioned like that - it's not defended.

Back, before revolution, this had its reasons - you could direct your attacks to corners while trying to avoid attacking defended stands. That could lead to possible confusion in determining the number of attacks and thus complicate the process.
Now, when stands have to attack to their front, it's fairly easy and straight-forward to determine the number of attacks which hit on 4 and which hit on 5.

Being partially in a wood (or behind the obstacle) allows you to utilize smaller terrain features.
And I don't see any problem about how it works.
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