December 16, 2017, 04:58:22 PM

Author Topic: Reforming ! Where has it gone?  (Read 574 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Clawlessdragon

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • Loc: Kent, England
Reforming ! Where has it gone?
« on: March 05, 2017, 11:07:36 PM »
It's been a bit quiet on the WMR board so another question for the WMR guys.
Reforming P50 in WM (after fall backs) is no longer available in WMR.

At the end of the round, the winning side can either Advance, stand still, or fall back... the loosing side have to remain exactly where they stand, which might be in irregular formation or back to the enemy... in the original rules the loosing side could reform, spin one stand and arrange other stands around it... therefore, can become a regular formation and face an enemy at the rear.

Has this mechanic been left out by accident? or was it removed due to the complications of combat lasting a number of turns or supporting units now considered "part of the combat"? (in WM rules supporting units could not reform).
Thanks again
Justin

Offline Aldhick

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 418
  • The End is nigh
    • Loc: Czech Republic
Re: Reforming ! Where has it gone?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2017, 07:11:31 AM »
Reform is not part of WMA combat rules, so that's why it's in WMR neither. The reason, as I see it, is that because of two rounds of combat, it happens quite oftent that victorious units decide to fall back instead of getting locked in a combat and being charged in opponents turn to flank for example. The reform would become too forginving movement for the loosing side.
WM - Toomb Kings
My Mordheim guys (and gals)
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t2734-aldhick-s-gangs

Offline Clawlessdragon

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • Loc: Kent, England
Re: Reforming ! Where has it gone?
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2017, 01:14:23 PM »
Ok thanks for the clarification. Wanted to be sure I was not missing something. If it was removed from WMA, that makes sense.

Offline cjbennett22

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 522
    • Loc: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Re: Reforming ! Where has it gone?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2017, 05:35:06 PM »
hello, just played my first couple of games this weekend with revolution rules, I think I did pretty well and as far as I know I did everything correctly, BUT, no reform at all?  really?

I just want to make sure because victorious units like to wrap around flanks when pursuing and after its all said and done there are some hideous looking formations that are inevitably just flanked on their next turn.

Is there really no "reform" at all, ever?
thanks.

Offline Aldhick

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 418
  • The End is nigh
    • Loc: Czech Republic
Re: Reforming ! Where has it gone?
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2017, 05:50:29 PM »
yes, no reform. but there is still  fall back. unless you lose, you can fall back which means you can effectively reform. it's just not that extra move we were used to make after all other combat related moves were made at the end of the combat phase.
WM - Toomb Kings
My Mordheim guys (and gals)
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t2734-aldhick-s-gangs

Offline cjbennett22

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 522
    • Loc: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Re: Reforming ! Where has it gone?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2017, 02:22:50 AM »
ok, I saw a quick excerpt of moving a single stand first during a "fallback" after victorious in combat but nothing about what to do with any other stands.  Without any specific mention of rearranging all of the other stands in a unit I assumed it was all gone.

would you like me to find the page number for the fix so we can get the "re-arrange" comment back in?  I would have to look it up is all.

Offline Aldhick

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 418
  • The End is nigh
    • Loc: Czech Republic
Re: Reforming ! Where has it gone?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2017, 07:31:01 AM »
I think it is there:

p. 52
 Moving 'back'
When a unit falls back, the player selects any one stand
from the unit and moves it back. In this case, 'back' is
defined as behind the line drawn across the front of the
stand as for visibility. See Diagram 52.1 and 52.2. Other
stands can then be moved into formation as convenient
so long as they do not exceed their permitted move.
They can be positioned forward of the line established
for the first stand if desired.
WM - Toomb Kings
My Mordheim guys (and gals)
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t2734-aldhick-s-gangs

Offline Clawlessdragon

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • Loc: Kent, England
Re: Reforming ! Where has it gone?
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2017, 08:06:19 AM »
That's pretty clear, the victorious side has all the options, and can effectively fallback (and reform).
However the loosing side has no options.
In my original example - flyers charged infantry, I think won the first round, wrapped around, lost the second round.  The infantry fellback, the flyers had 2 stands facing one way and the 3rd at 90 deg facing another way - effectively in irregular formation and had infantry to the front (and giant to the rear).
OK, the gamble did not pay off, and they deserved to be counter charged from all sides, but to remain back to the enemy and irregular formation is a double blow.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have an issue with that mechanic - as it effects everyone equally - I was just checking it was intentionally removed and not missed :)


Offline cjbennett22

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 522
    • Loc: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Re: Reforming ! Where has it gone?
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2017, 05:28:18 PM »
When a unit falls back, the player selects any one stand
from the unit and moves it back. In this case, 'back' is
defined as behind the line drawn across the front of the
stand as for visibility. See Diagram 52.1 and 52.2. Other
stands can then be re-arranged around the first stand,
so long as they do not exceed their permitted move distance.
They can be positioned forward of the line established
from the first stand if desired.

Hello, just want to correct the grammar in the paragraph.  This was the paragraph I read and couldn't understand it fully.  My reasoning is the use of the word "re-arrange" when explaining the rules on how to "make way", so I was looking for the "re-arrange" word for the same thing in falling back.

Also, above the "Moving 'Back'" there is a line that reads.....
"Units that fall back but fail to break contact are automatically confused by dint of being within 1cm of enemy."
I don't know what dint means, I believe its a misspelled word or something there, maybe "automatically confused by moving within 1cm of an enemy."

Oh and with this paragraph, second on page 52, maybe clarify if this rule should be followed when retreating flyers or cavalry end their retreat still within contact with infantry that cannot pursuit them.  Unless that is just plain allowed in WMR.  In which case I apologize for bringing it up.

Thank you, I just kept seeing things while re-reading the rules with this.  ha!

Offline Aldhick

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 418
  • The End is nigh
    • Loc: Czech Republic
Re: Reforming ! Where has it gone?
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2017, 09:54:12 AM »
Thanx for the spot CJ. The "dint" is in the original wording in WMA rules.
WM - Toomb Kings
My Mordheim guys (and gals)
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t2734-aldhick-s-gangs