December 17, 2017, 07:59:28 AM

Author Topic: Leadership and when to assign Commanders  (Read 1199 times)

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Offline Whiro

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Leadership and when to assign Commanders
« on: September 17, 2016, 01:37:52 PM »
Hello Admirals,

yesterday we had an Game an come up with an Question.

When do I assign my Commanders?

Page 104 of the Blue Book just say that the LD of the Commander is used even if it's lower than the LD of the Crew. I canīt find more on this in the whole Rules.

Normaly I place my Commander on one Ship and so donīt Roll for LD value for this Ship. Following p. 104 Blue Book this is not correct I do have to check for the Crews LD Value.

Yesterday I had 5 identical Tau Protectors and was asking if I could check 5 Times for LD and the place my Korīel LD 8 on the Ship with the lowest Value or do I have to assign the Commander before the Test for LD to a particular Ship?

Best Regards
Whiro

Offline Xca|iber

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Re: Leadership and when to assign Commanders
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2016, 08:05:40 PM »
It's not specified anywhere AFAIK, but my understanding is that you must normally assign commanders during the "Choose Forces" stage of a battle (page 67). This is supported by the bonus in the Armada book for Battlefleet Cadia, which specifically allows you to assign Veteran Captains after Ld is rolled, implying that normally this is not the case.

The statement about using a commander's Ld regardless of the ship's random value means that assigning them and simply not rolling is perfectly fine in the practical sense (as opposed to rolling for a number you will never use). This may have more impact in Campaigns though, if your flagship changes from game to game (so you will need to know its Ld without your Admiral aboard).
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Offline Bozeman

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Re: Leadership and when to assign Commanders
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2016, 03:25:16 AM »
I disagree.  Assigning Veteran Captains after Leadership is rolled is meant to reinforce that the Veteran Captains are not upgrades to a specific ship (such as a Chaos Lord which is bought for a specific ship) but rather a Character that can be placed where needed.  I think that because there is no specific instruction in the fleet list that an Admiral or other character needs to be placed before rolling for Leadership, that an Admiral can choose whichever ship they want as their flagship.

The exception, of course, is Chaos who are forced to put their fleet commander aboard the most expensive ship in the fleet.  If two ships are tied, the Chaos player should be able to choose (once again after rolling Ld, which gives Chaos an incentive to have 2+ of that ship)

(Indeed, I have sometimes thought about selling almost all of my Chaos and then buying only Slaughter class ships and running a Khorne heavy all-Slaughter all the time list.)

Offline Xca|iber

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Re: Leadership and when to assign Commanders
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2016, 05:13:13 AM »
I suppose I can see that reading of it. Makes more sense to assign them during the Deployment step in any case.

This actually opens up a strange inconsistency in the classic rules though, where most normal Admirals (or their equivalents) are purchased separately, then assigned at deployment (subject to restrictions depending on faction), while some (but not all) secondary commanders are purchased for specific ships when you assemble your fleet, and cannot be switched later. While this probably makes sense from a fluff perspective, it's not great mechanically speaking.

IMHO it should be all one way or the other (in this case, pick all your characters during listbuilding, then assign them during deployment based on whatever restrictions apply).
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Offline horizon

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Re: Leadership and when to assign Commanders
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2016, 10:07:22 AM »
On the beginning:
you need to roll for leadership for all vessels with or without admiral/commander. Why? In case of "Bridge Smashed" critical hit the commander is gone and the vessel uses its rolled for leadership.

So, Whiro, regardless of what comes next: you MUST always roll for leadership for a vessel with or without commander on it.

On placement in general with the most basic fleets:
Chaos must place its warmaster on the biggest ship.
Imperial Navy wherever the player wants.

So, eg, using Chaos the placement is first, then the dice will be rolled. So, to keep the mechanic flowing the same applies to the lesser Chaos commanders which can be used: pick ship, then roll. The roll could be higher, pity that, but a lunatic Chaos captain would just kick the smarter subcommander out of the ship if he starts a mutiny (or something like that) if the bridge is smashed, the smarter crew takes over. lol.

Now, Imperial Navy. You may place the admiral on any vessel (though generally speaking he will be on the Battleship if present but is not a rule to do so!). So if you rolled for leadership and you roll good and roll the highest leadership for Battleships, battlecruisers and cruisers but a small Endeavour light cruiser would get Ld6.
Would you place your Leadership 8 admiral which you bought on the Endeavour with Ld6 or on the Emperor with Ld9?

To avoid quirky ideas like that we go with Chaos:
pick admirals, captains, etc. Place them on a ship. And the roll for leadership.

Except the Cadia things as Xca|iber points out.

Offline Xca|iber

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Re: Leadership and when to assign Commanders
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2016, 03:00:41 AM »
On the beginning:
you need to roll for leadership for all vessels with or without admiral/commander. Why? In case of "Bridge Smashed" critical hit the commander is gone and the vessel uses its rolled for leadership.

Out of curiosity, where is this in the rulebook? I was looking for it the other day and couldn't find it (except regarding re-rolls on page 104). Just asking so I can put it in BFG:XR on my next editing pass.

Now, Imperial Navy. You may place the admiral on any vessel (though generally speaking he will be on the Battleship if present but is not a rule to do so!). So if you rolled for leadership and you roll good and roll the highest leadership for Battleships, battlecruisers and cruisers but a small Endeavour light cruiser would get Ld6.
Would you place your Leadership 8 admiral which you bought on the Endeavour with Ld6 or on the Emperor with Ld9?

To avoid quirky ideas like that we go with Chaos:
pick admirals, captains, etc. Place them on a ship. And the roll for leadership.

Except the Cadia things as Xca|iber points out.

This is why I've always leaned towards assigning captains first... I agree that it's weird when you end up motivated to put your admiral on some tiny CL instead of the big battleship!
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Offline horizon

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Re: Leadership and when to assign Commanders
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2016, 08:10:05 AM »
Weird, indeed it says re-rolls are lost. (Bridge Smashed).

I shall check so old FAQ's on why my mind was messed up.

However, if you use this special fanmade rule you also need Ld per ship rolled:
http://inisfail.realmsofinisfail.com/bfg/bfg-imperial-assassins.html

 ;D

Offline Bozeman

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Re: Leadership and when to assign Commanders
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2016, 05:21:21 PM »
Yeah, that was something I missed in like four years of playing.  Pg. 104, sidebar in the lower left corner.

They couldn't have duplicated that IN the actual Critical Effects table?  Seriously one sentence.  They could have shoehorned it into the table.

Offline Lotus

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Re: Leadership and when to assign Commanders
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2016, 08:50:44 AM »
Has someone experience with this houserule? Sounds interesting.