August 23, 2017, 06:43:09 PM

Author Topic: Skill ideas for ratskins  (Read 3523 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SharkForce

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Skill ideas for ratskins
« on: July 12, 2011, 10:24:20 PM »
Advance Notice: this is a long post :P

Premise: Ratskins are *never* (other than Dapakkanni tribe) allowed to learn techno skills from an advance (but presumably can learn them from the "steal prowess" spirit lore if so desired), which is a pretty significant advantage. It's one of the things that makes not having heavies hurt (that and the fact that you don't have crazygonuts area denial or much in the way of template effects). Obviously, they have other things that ideally will help with this, but it still feels like they could use something. This is basically a proposal to offer them a compromise; it isn't techno skills, but it is a similar substitute for them (that is, it provides "utility" effects and helps with the post-game). As a side benefit, it also helps (imo) when it comes to the decision whether or not you will continue using the special ratskin weapons.

One important thing to understand is that this is to replace the techno skills as most house gangs get them, not as Van Saar gangs get them; that is, the chief is the only member of the gang who gets access by default, all others must roll a 2 or 12 on advance to get them. Other gangs never get to roll on this table, not even on a 2 or 12. Note that totem warriors *can* roll on this table, but probably shouldn't.

1) Weapon Expert - For this model, bowguns and muskets become move and fire (or can provide the same benefit to an adjacent/touching model on that turn), blunderbuss/scattergun has 5+ ammo (or can provide the same benefit to an adjacent/touching model on that turn)

Notes: Honestly, this still leaves the blunderbuss feeling kinda weak. The huge chance to hit is nice, but I'm leaning towards giving the same benefit as scattershot from a shotgun as an additional ability. It would then serve a slightly similar niche to the flamer - extremely likely to hit someone in cover without having to go around said cover, but with a very limited range. An addition to the skill that I am considering would be to allow the model to also craft 2d6+3 credits worth of those weapons, with any leftovers getting lost, instead of foraging in the post-game. This skill is basically intended to make these weapons more appealing to use for a ratskin gang.

2) Mapmaking - Add or subtract an additional 1 when rolling for scenarios if not seriously injured in previous game (gang can only benefit from one fighter with this). Additionally, there is a 1 in 6 chance of making a ratskin map in the post-game if not seriously injured (the gang can benefit from as many of these as it rolls up). The map can be sold for d3x10 credits to the merchant's guild (price determined after the map is sold), or can be traded to other players if desired, but will never lead to an archeotech hoard (treat a roll of 2 as a roll of 1 if it is traded to another gang - the type of map is not determined until after the map is traded)

Notes: Well, *someone* must be making those ratskin maps you can buy. Seems logical that the someone should be ratskins. And since those maps can give up to a +3 bonus, it seems reasonable for the mapmaker to be able to grant that to his own gang as well.

3) Sniper - The model can use boltguns, hunting rifles, needle rifles, and storm bolters. Additionally, at the player's option, they may exchange the ability to select combat skills for the ability to select shooting skills.

Notes: This is intended to offer something that is at least vaguely like having a heavy in the gang, for area denial and long-range strikes. Obviously storm bolters and hunting rifles only apply if you use the community edition of the necromunda rules. This isn't nearly as effective as a heavy stubber or heavy bolter, but it does also offer a counter to the strategy, especially if you have a blindsnake pouch on the sniper.

4) Tech Savvy - The model can use any pistol or close-combat weapon (not just the ones on the ratskin special lists), plus can use grenades and shells.

Notes: Did you notice that technically only the chief can use the grenades and shells list? Anyways, this opens up chainswords, bolt pistols, plasma pistols, needle pistols, web pistols, hand flamers, and grenades, and improves shotguns to where they are for other gangs. It provides the ability to use template weapons as well.

5) Explorer - The model has a chance to find new territories in the post-game (with the same chance of success as the ratskin scout hireling), but must forgo foraging to do so. Ignore "Lost" results and "Green Hivers", and Archeotech Hoardes are reported to the gang instead of the scout disappearing. If a territory is found, it is treated as normal for a ratskin renegade gang capturing a territory (ie plundered if not an archeotech hoard, hidden if it is) (note: the new territory does not become the base camp). In addition, when moving to a new base camp, the gang may roll twice and select which result they prefer (the gang may only benefit from this ability once per post-game sequence, no matter how many explorers they have)

Notes: Well, it seemed remarkably silly that in order to gain this ability, the renegades would normally  have to hire a scout. For reference, the ability generates on average ~75 credits (and 1/36 of an archeotech hoard) when it works, divide by 6 and you get about 12.5 credits instead of 4.5 credits by doing this... though of course, few phrases are more deceptive than "on average". Also, this certainly helps explain why they would be outlaws, apart from people just not liking them, since it means that your ratskin gang is basically razing small villages and such to the ground every time it happens.

6) forager - The model can forage for 3d6+3 credits worth of food, instead of the usual D6+1, in the post-game.

Notes: Just intended to be a help in the financial end of things. Not sure how necessary it really is. It's hard to know if it will just overpower ratskins or not.

So... discuss.

Am I crazy? Is this excessive? Will it upset the delicate balance between ratskin gangs and house gangs? Is there actually a delicate balance between said gangs to upset in the first place?

I'm hoping people will find these interesting and useful, and that they fill in something people feel is missing from the ratskin rules. I'd love to get some feedback, in any case.

Offline Dimreapa

  • Moderator
  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 42
  • ...Sooner or later you dance with Dimreapa!
Re: Skill ideas for ratskins
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2011, 07:44:57 PM »
These are certainly rather interesting.  The Ratskins do have a fair bit going for them mind you, some natural effects that House Gangs don't get.  One should always tread lightly with skill tables, because it is skill tables that House Gangs rely on for specialisation, whereas Outlanders come with their own.

That said, I have ran campaigns previously where I allowed Ratskins (and Scavvies too if I remember) access to the Hive Ken skills.

I like these, as they are nice and fluffy additions.  I would say however that one of the things that annoys me a bit about Necromunda is the obsession with the Techno table.  It isn't completely unjustified, but I feel Ratskins should always be somewhat under the wire.  They're the kind of gang that should be tough to use, and rather different.  Plus, they're not exactly weak, are they.

I still think most Ratskins should be relying rather heavily on primitive weapons.  To break too greatly away from that would place them leaps and bounds ahead of Scavvies, in my opinion.  Ratskins are, however, the gang I know the least about, and that has a lot to do with people not using them.

One thing I think is a great way of expanding Necromunda is more themed skill tables that can be used optionally, although I think if they are used, you should make sure all gangs (or at least all or most Outlander gangs) are catered for equally in that regard.

The lack of Techno for Ratskins is supposed to be a major disadvantage, and I really don't think the replacement should offer any similar service.  Alternative skills are nice, such as the forager, map maker and explorer ones, but the weapons-based ones scream of Techno-envy which is essentially giving Ratskins a special Techno skill table specifically adapted to them in particular.

On Blunderbusses, the scatter shot idea isn't too bad, but they are a more sort of "brave" weapon, and not supposed to be the cream of the crop for Ratskins.  For my part I think the insanely high to hit average is good enough (as a Scavvy player I tend to have quite a few Blunderbusses in my Gang, and I also use a lot of them for my Rebel Grots in GoMo) as it is essentially the best in the game for it, if you consider the amount of love Las and Autopistols get from House Gang players.

Still I really like the Weapon Expert skill, and I don't think it needs any adding to it, and if anything it should represent the ethos of allowing Ratskins to be mobile with their weapons, although the ability to easily make primitive weapons for free is an alternative, or a good idea for an alternative skill for elsewhere in the list.

I'm really not sure on Sniper and Tech Savvy.  Its a debate the Necrotesters have had many times concerning Gangs capacity for improving their weapon selection over games.  You want an instant controversial Necromunda topic?  Just entitle the thread House Weapon Lists and watch the sparks fly.

I like the idea behind them, but I still think Ratskins should be fairly limited by technology.  In fact I think they're generally too proud and regularly shun them.  There's a reason why it's a big deal that Brakar has a Heavy Stubber.

Map-making, forager and Explorer are pretty solid.  They are quite powerful abilities, but they represent the idea of Ratskins very well.  I think if the skill table does need some editing, I'd steer more towards entries like this, and less the weapon options, but that's me.

When I get home tonight I'll swat up on both sets of Ratskin rules and the other articles, and I'll see what else I can suggest once I've got a firmer grasp of the context.

Hopefully we might be able to bang our heads together at some point and see what is best for it.

I'm sorry about the low replies, but regrettably this once great forum has been falling off the map of late, in large thanks to GW's attitude to the best damn games they ever made.  Hopefully all it needs is a sharp kick up the backside and a little dusting off, and it'll be great again.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 07:53:47 PM by Dimreapa »

Offline SharkForce

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Skill ideas for ratskins
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2011, 10:48:28 PM »
well, one of my key goals was to make sure these wouldn't be excessively common. i'm actually a little bit concerned that some of them are too much (for example, getting a new territory roughly every 6 games on average is not a huge deal for a house gang usually, but getting a 120 or 240 credit windfall can *really* change things for an outlaw gang.

tech savvy - well... the chief can use grenades and ammo. i halfway suspect that they should all be able to use grenades and ammo, and it was left off by accident (though i certainly can't offer any proof). and being able to use power weapons (or rather, all melee weapons in general) just makes sense to me as well; they can use lasguns, but not a power axe? about the only iffy part imo is the pistols, and most of them aren't so good anyways. and the good ones? well, they have no way of getting those directly. they don't show up on the outlaw trading post chart. so, if the rules were changed such that any member of the tribe can use the weapons and ammo (and probably remove bolt ammo from their list, so they have to give up a rare trade), i wouldn't feel this was really needed. honestly, the main reason for the other stuff is that it felt they should have the grenades and ammo to begin with... the rest sorta... just... got added because i felt like i was giving them stuff they should have already had.

sniper - bearing in mind i presume they should all be *allowed* to use grenades and ammo, they should pretty much all be able to use a boltgun as well (since it's not that different from a shotgun with bolt ammo). hunting rifles i feel fit in well with the tribe anyways (and honestly, should probably be added to their list in the first place without any skill required, imo - in fact, the ratksin scout hireling in the CE rules can use one). storm bolter and needle rifle might be a bit excessive, i guess. on the other hand, it's a tiny fraction of a specialist, and both are rare rolls that don't actually appear on the table the ratskins roll on... these things are more likely to be trophies of battle than anything. i don't see a problem with letting them make use of those options if they should find them, and frankly it was one of the skills i was least worried about. plus, remember, it's not a skill category the ratskins actually get, it's a skill category they can take only when they roll a 2 or a 12. still, would it make you feel better if it was changed to be hunting rifle only, and they gain the shooting skill category (as a replacement for their combat skill category)?

i do have to say, i find it ironic that some of the abilities i was most worried about getting lambasted are the ones you are the most accepting of :P

i've been really worrying that some of the skills are handing out a bit too much to the ratskins, especially when you consider that all their income goes directly to their stash.

on to the others:

weapon expert - i really do feel this is a good skill. as it stands, it's pretty much best to completely ignore the existence of the primitive weapons and just use a mixture of whatever you can get... with braves costing an extra 10 credits, coming with a free club (and knife, afaict), and not getting an extra advance over a ratskin, i just don't see much need to ever use these weapons. i really feel it would add quite a bit to the gang if at least one or two warriors could use these weapons and still be at least a bit effective.

mapmaker - ok, about what i thought.

explorer - still a little worried about getting that large income increase

forager - was kinda worried it might need a downgrade, actually...

Offline Dimreapa

  • Moderator
  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 42
  • ...Sooner or later you dance with Dimreapa!
Re: Skill ideas for ratskins
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2011, 04:06:27 PM »
Apologies for the late reply, but I've been very busy of late.  I'm also not an expert on Ratskins, and haven't faced them much since 1st Edition, which was the superior edition anyway.

Firstly, I'll reply to some of your comments, and see if I can offer any additional suggestions (it's worth noting if you want a quicker response or in-depth discussion, PM me and I'll give you my email - if it's not already in my sig... can't remember...).

well, one of my key goals was to make sure these wouldn't be excessively common. i'm actually a little bit concerned that some of them are too much (for example, getting a new territory roughly every 6 games on average is not a huge deal for a house gang usually, but getting a 120 or 240 credit windfall can *really* change things for an outlaw gang.

This is true, and I certainly think it's worth being concerned by exactly how much credits any outlander gang gets.  I should mention that although the chosen skill selection seems rare, in my experience it isn't quite as rare during advance rolls as it seems statistically.  Certainly I think you'd need to heavily tone down quite how much Credits an Outlaw gang can get through skills, as this does give them a pretty unfair advantage over other Outlanders.  Outlander Gangs should be (with the exception of Spyrers and Enforcers) struggling for cash all of the time.  It is part of the experience, and there isn't supposed to be an easy solution.

tech savvy - well... the chief can use grenades and ammo. i halfway suspect that they should all be able to use grenades and ammo, and it was left off by accident (though i certainly can't offer any proof). and being able to use power weapons (or rather, all melee weapons in general) just makes sense to me as well; they can use lasguns, but not a power axe? about the only iffy part imo is the pistols, and most of them aren't so good anyways. and the good ones? well, they have no way of getting those directly. they don't show up on the outlaw trading post chart. so, if the rules were changed such that any member of the tribe can use the weapons and ammo (and probably remove bolt ammo from their list, so they have to give up a rare trade), i wouldn't feel this was really needed. honestly, the main reason for the other stuff is that it felt they should have the grenades and ammo to begin with... the rest sorta... just... got added because i felt like i was giving them stuff they should have already had.

Hmm I'm not sure about that, to be honest.  In the 1st Ed Ratskin rules, only Chiefs and Shamans could have grenades and ammo.  All House Basic weapons were "special" and could not be used by Braves.  That has essentially not changed, and for the most part I feel that is correct.  A while back, this was heavily debated by the answer mods and necrotesters; concerning weapons advancement through a campaign.  It is a complex issue, but I think limiting it to just pistols and close combat weapons in this case is a reasonable compromise, but I still see it as Techno Envy  ;)

sniper - bearing in mind i presume they should all be *allowed* to use grenades and ammo, they should pretty much all be able to use a boltgun as well (since it's not that different from a shotgun with bolt ammo). hunting rifles i feel fit in well with the tribe anyways (and honestly, should probably be added to their list in the first place without any skill required, imo - in fact, the ratksin scout hireling in the CE rules can use one). storm bolter and needle rifle might be a bit excessive, i guess. on the other hand, it's a tiny fraction of a specialist, and both are rare rolls that don't actually appear on the table the ratskins roll on... these things are more likely to be trophies of battle than anything. i don't see a problem with letting them make use of those options if they should find them, and frankly it was one of the skills i was least worried about. plus, remember, it's not a skill category the ratskins actually get, it's a skill category they can take only when they roll a 2 or a 12. still, would it make you feel better if it was changed to be hunting rifle only, and they gain the shooting skill category (as a replacement for their combat skill category)?

Once again, I disagree on the shells and grenades.  I thought like you it might be an oversight, until I checked my old hardback, and noticed even then regular ratskins couldn't get them. IMO, this makes sense, as a Chief will usually get the best equipment.  Still, a individual Ratskin might be able to prove himself later on to carry grenades and ammo, and such.  However, this is not a mistake in the rules, this is how it has always been for the Ratskins.

As to Sniper, well I agree that the Hunting Rifle makes sense, and well, the Needle Rifle would be so utterly rare as to be not an overpowered consideration.  The Storm Bolter imo, is just many shades of wrong.  I don't even know where the rules of it come from (must be Ash Wastes or something), but that's just too much.  I'd stick the regular Bolter into this entry.  I'm not a huge fan of Ratskins running around with Bolters, but imo a Sniper would have it, if any.  I'd remove the Storm Bolter and replace it with a regular bolter, and you're set imo.  The Storm Bolter is too outside of the regular Necro rules to make much sense, imo.  Sure the Hunting Rifle is a AW Nomad weapon if memory serves, but it should be in the normal rules imo.

i do have to say, i find it ironic that some of the abilities i was most worried about getting lambasted are the ones you are the most accepting of :P

I'm not a good representation of gamers in general to be honest.  But I like fluff, and its the fluffy entries that I like the most.  If one is going to do a new skill table exclusively for a faction, it should represent what they are like!

i've been really worrying that some of the skills are handing out a bit too much to the ratskins, especially when you consider that all their income goes directly to their stash.

Yeah, that is a pretty big concern, especially with not having the Income Tax House Gangs get.  I still think you're heading in the right direction with these skills, they just need some playtesting and balancing and you're set.

weapon expert - i really do feel this is a good skill. as it stands, it's pretty much best to completely ignore the existence of the primitive weapons and just use a mixture of whatever you can get... with braves costing an extra 10 credits, coming with a free club (and knife, afaict), and not getting an extra advance over a ratskin, i just don't see much need to ever use these weapons. i really feel it would add quite a bit to the gang if at least one or two warriors could use these weapons and still be at least a bit effective.

Umm... Braves are like Juves... they slightly more than half the cost of a Ratskin, meaning you can take a decent amount of these with Blundabusses and muskets, and have a cheap amount of ranged sniping and close range pinning inducers on a very low budget.  They cost more than a Juve should, but it is the same for Ratskins, who are also 10 more points than a ganger should be, and this cost factors in their additional rules, one of which being their injury ability, making them very tough to actually kill.  Plus, later on in the game one would assume that Braves become regular Ratskins, and thus have access to the Special Weapons category.

I like this skill because it encourages the Ratskin player to use primitive weapons.  Although a Ratskin gang will expand its weapons over time, do remember that Ratskins observe a tradition which makes them heftily shun the ways of the Hivers, meaning a few of them would want to avoid weapons used by Hivers.  In short, its nice that this skill table can provide both options.  There is certainly an argument that you should be ignoring weapon restrictions for all gangs late campaign anyway.

mapmaker - ok, about what i thought.

explorer - still a little worried about getting that large income increase

forager - was kinda worried it might need a downgrade, actually...

My only issue with Mapmaker is that now that I've read up on Ratskins, this gives them a pretty unbelievably huge advantage when selecting scenarios, as the Ratskins already get bonuses to the scenario table.  This means you could be adding or subtracting 3 from the roll for Scenarios, making this a pretty massive advantage, and you'll probably be able to actually choose more or less any scenario if you roll a 3 or 4.  Factor in the source of income as well, and that's a pretty powerful skill.  It might be worth considering limiting this skill to one of those two bonuses, as the inherent Scenarios rule Ratskins get suggests they at least are using Ratskin Maps.  I still do like this skill, but playtesting will be required with it for sure.

With Explorer, indeed, this does need fiddling with.  My main point was more that this represents Ratskins better, imo, than whether or not the income is an issue, as it is.  The best way to tone it down is to make the skill difficult to pull off, so you'd forgo foraging and require a 6 to find one (or you're making a table where on a 1 you lose that Ratskin, 2-5 you find nothing, but perhaps scavenge some credits on the way, and on a 6 succeed).  Besides, its clear you're rolling on the House Gang Territory table, something no Outlaw should have access to anyway.  I know the idea is to get a chance of getting more Archeotek Hordes, but it needs to be severely limited, otherwise foraging becomes completely pointless, and Ratskin Foraging is already better than other Outlaws (only Ratskins get that +1 to foraging).

Thus we get to Forager.  On second thoughts you're right about that downgrade.  2D6+1 imo would be about the highest I think you could potentially get away with.  The other alternative is merely allowing this skill to be cumulative, but subsequent skills merely add another +1, rather than an extra D6.

Sorry this reply has taken too long.  Much has been happening in RL recently.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 10:38:15 PM by Dimreapa »

Offline SharkForce

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Skill ideas for ratskins
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2011, 07:32:12 AM »
- not too worried about getting early replies. these boards seem a little more quiet than i would have expected though.

- as i said elsewhere (the explorer skill): the words "on average" can be very deceptive. so yes, i can understand that while in some campaigns the ratskins will roll 2 or 12 1/18 of the time, there will also be the outliers where someone will roll only 1 in 100 rolls, and where someone else will roll 5 of them in a single post-battle sequence. but then, that's part of the setting as well. that said, i'm thinking i probably will reduce some of the skills. especially map-making, which i unintentionally gave a rather ridiculous advantage.

- tech savvy: grenades and ammo + melee weapons seem good, but on closer inspection i'm not sure i want to give them hand flamers. so maybe just make it bolt, las-, and needle pistols added from the pistols list, in hindsight (and again, needle pistols would be more of a rare trophy than anything else). i'd have to think more before i decided to stick with allowing hand flamers though... on the one hand, it would add a lot to the gang. on the other hand, maybe they're not supposed to have that added to them...

- not being an oversight depends on the assumption that they didn't just c/p certain sections over ;) that said, i also agree that even if they would normally be limited, an experienced warrior should be able to gain enough status to use them, just like the chief... that is, it isn't so much inability as it is social status. boltgun, needle rifle, and hunting rifle feels about right as well. storm bolter is not really a sniper weapon at all, looking closer. though of course, i'm not about to tell a BS 4 leader armed with one that he can't snipe ;) oh, and hunting rifle is indeed originally from AW, but was added in to the community edition (as was the storm bolter, though that was probably swiped from a 2e 40k profile or something like that).

- liking the fluff more than being worried about balance i can understand :P

- think i'm gonna try and address the concerns about adding too much income (though i don't think starving should be a constant major concern for ratskins, i do think they shouldn't be able to be constantly upgrading and adding new members like crazy... but really, their foraging ability means they gain, on average (there's that dirty phrase again!), 1.5 credits net per model. for a gang of 10 ratskins, if 3 of them go down, that's still 31.5 credits (on average), which means they can in general lose about 1/3 of their number in a fight and not (usually) starve.

- agree that the weapons expert skill is primarily designed to allow the use of the ratskin weapons without being too weak. disagree that braves are particularly worthwhile, at least compared to juves. with juves, you're getting a chance at getting a focused warrior (but also of getting a not-terribly-useful warrior, kinda balances), eventually an extra advance by the time they become a ganger, and it costs you half as much. with a brave, it costs more than half, and they don't get an extra advance. also, the other advantage to being juve-heavy (that they eventually become lower gang-rating gangers) is not as exciting for a gang that already gets a big bonus to choosing scenarios like the ratskins. but that's neither here nor there. i think weapons expert is fine as-is. if i do add the weapon-creation, it will probably be 1d6+2 credits (lose any fractions) of stuff instead of my 2d6+3 proposal; a good chance to get *something* (any roll higher than 2), but not a guarantee, and you won't make a ton of stuff. also, 1d6+2 (and selling the weapons for half-price) is a worse option than foraging, while 2d6+3 is not. most people will take their improved weapon-use, and not worry about getting a handbow or musket. unless they just want to be able to say they built the weapon with their own two hands! (which i think is a perfectly fitting reason to let them craft instead of forage)

- mapmaker: ok, i should have really phrased this differently in hindsight. i *said* "(the gang can benefit from as many of these [implying maps] as it rolls up)" and what i *meant* to say (but didn't) was "(the gang can benefit from as many mapmakers as it rolls up)", to clarify that unlike explorer where you only get to use a part of the ability once per post-game session, you can have several mapmakers. ratskins should not benefit from reading the maps at all. they should have the option of putting it in their stash (for later sale or trade), selling it to merchants (who are going to quite suddenly get more greedy now and only offer 1d3x5 credits), or trade it to another gang (which will actually be the most valuable deal, as the map has a theoretical value of d6x10 credits - and i'm all in favor of more interaction between players). this was never intended to be a "you're guaranteed to pick your scenario" ability, and in fact, the LRB tells us regarding the ratskin scout hireling: "Note that if a gang has a Ratskin Map which also gives a bonus on the Scenario roll then the Ratskin Scout confers no further advantage." technically, this isn't mentioned in the ratskin renegades listing, but it *should* be, as far as i'm concerned. could also add that if they do successfully make the map, they can't choose to forage (if they don't get to make a map, they can still forage. otherwise choosing to make a map is pretty much always a bad idea over the long run - even the d3x10 1/6 of the time is worse than the d6+1 all the time they could get, and with the reduced amount...)

- explorer: honestly, i hate mechanisms that make you lose a model without testing its stats. they drive me nuts. that said, that's probably a good reason to add one (they're also quite common in necromunda anyways). also, i think it would be kinda ironic that you might get the skill, and hesitate to risk your experienced explorer... and yet, a big part of the reason he's so valuable is that he can explore, so by not risking him on exploring, you're losing a big chunk of his value. a truly awful conundrum. i like it :) so, probably just use the exact same table as the ratskin scout.

- forager: how do you feel about 2d6+2 (they forage twice as well as a normal ratskin)?

Offline SharkForce

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Skill ideas for ratskins
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2011, 08:26:12 PM »
hmmm... just had a thought last night while i was trying to go to sleep. forager is somewhat of a place-holder anyways (albeit a useful one, since having foragers means you could afford to have someone else forgo a foraging post-game action to do other useful things), what if instead there was a skill that lets you take on some aspects of the rat who's skin they wear? likely benefits would include reduced food costs for the model with the skill, and maybe the ability to climb walls as if they were ladders (other ideas include speed increases, which i'm worried might be too strong if i gave them the speed characteristic of a standard necromunda giant rat -6 i believe... even 5 move might be too big to hand out, really - or the dodge ability of a rat... but they already get agility skills, which means they already can dodge like a rat anyways)

as i understand it, the rat skin comes from when they do their coming-of-age thing and are no longer considered a brave, but a full rat-skin, so braves would not be able to take this skill (once they count as ratskins, they could gain the skill as normal... and in any case, the standard for if you can't take the skill you roll seems to be choose any skill from the category, which means the brave has a better chance of getting a specific other skill they want).

oh, and i remembered another reason i'm not a big fan of braves... they make lousy fodder for ratskins. i can outfit a starting ratskin with a blindsnake pouch (in fact, every other possible member of the gang can) at a discount even, but for a brave i would have to get one from the rare trades table (or potentially from a shaman if you use the ratskin tribes material).